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current no.1 at our club vs BOZ HD

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bozbrisvegas View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:16am
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bozbrisvegas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:21am

Yes it's me again, but guys this is one of the best matches I've played where it was real competition counting towards something.  I won't comment much I just really think you should watch it.  I'll comment more later.

I'll just say, I didn't let him use his FH.
 
Solcion stays on bh for me that's for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sebas-aguirre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:49am
ok arrange me a match against this guy... :D
for what I can see the guy in light blue has decent backhand (I think 90% of his shots are backhand). force him to use forehand and make mistakes with that shot.
give him long serves to forehand with tons of spin.
the guy in blue and white seems to me like a blocker. but for me you are making a mistake. if you block you need to stay close to the table and with knees bent. this will make your block harder to receive.
if you go back and start passing/looping with no spin the ball, you're done.
so, if you are going to block stay close. if you go a bit back to make a looping movement, then make a really agressive one. otherwise you give attack and iniciative to the other.
one more thing, if you serve long your opponent always answers with that bh loop wich you block and then you're on defensive mode. serve really short so you cut his initial bh loop.
when you serve you should really try to be the one attacking.
last, put short pips on backhand.
:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 9:34am
I am the guy in light blue - I was using my backhand because it was about 3 times more reliable at opening up, the few deleted points were trying open up on fh which kept going wrong, so I stuck to bh all the way through.  He was also having trouble with the pace I was keeping, constantly on the attack even though it was blockable.
The guy in the dark blue usually is not a blocker.  He is usually as I said the fastest fh in our state, I kept the pressure up on him and you can see he had a lot of trouble with reading how much spin was on my shots. 
 
I havent used a control rubber in competition before so it was amazing me how easy it was to keep looping everything - sometimes side swipe sometime punch they all just kept going on the table without worrying. 
 
And yes I know everyone is going to say use your forehand.  I know this already, but when you start playing and you all your shots just start missing amd you really want to win, are you going to say forget your strong point? Or a you going to utilize it?  Look at Ovcharov for example...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thylacine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 10:26am
The guy with the glasses reminds me of Klampar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 10:44am
tried searching for an image and didnt know that jonyer was a  clampar and another guy klampar - so still dont know why he reminds you of him... appearance or stroke or manner?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 1:46pm
You guys are having some fierce volleys. Good play. Clap

Just a minor thought... That guy is popping up a lot of your serves. You should have a fh smash for those in your arsenal. You know, where you step to the side of the table a little bit and do a table-sweeping fh smash right at the top of the bounce. Fast and deliberate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sebas-aguirre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I am the guy in light blue - I was using my backhand because it was about 3 times more reliable at opening up, the few deleted points were trying open up on fh which kept going wrong, so I stuck to bh all the way through.  He was also having trouble with the pace I was keeping, constantly on the attack even though it was blockable.
The guy in the dark blue usually is not a blocker.  He is usually as I said the fastest fh in our state, I kept the pressure up on him and you can see he had a lot of trouble with reading how much spin was on my shots. 
 
I havent used a control rubber in competition before so it was amazing me how easy it was to keep looping everything - sometimes side swipe sometime punch they all just kept going on the table without worrying. 
 
And yes I know everyone is going to say use your forehand.  I know this already, but when you start playing and you all your shots just start missing amd you really want to win, are you going to say forget your strong point? Or a you going to utilize it?  Look at Ovcharov for example...
 
 


oohhh... I thought you were the other.
the match seemed fine from your perspective.
not many problems.
I wouldn't recommend pivot and opening with forehand except if you have quick feet and a killer forehand. opening backhand seems fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AosI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 3:35pm
Great video.. I was considering Solcion for my bh for the same reason.  It seems like it could be good to punch with and some spin if you need it too.  Again great match! Thanks for sharing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thylacine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

appearance or stroke or manner?
 Stroke manner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heimdallalso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 7:40pm
Nobody... & I mean nobody pops their collar like you bozbrisvegas! Wink
I feel better. I've been meaning to tell you that for weeks & weeks.

Enjoyed the vid.

For me, soft sponges are the way to go.
Seems to be working for your BH too.
Are you relaxed in your body or somewhat tight when you play?
I want you to have even more effectiveness/success.
Hit with/like a whip!!!

r e l a x

Good Hitting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rupertgriffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:08pm
Nice game.
It looks like you're backhand orientated because of your grip. Does your thumb stick up? Do you change grip to do forehand? This might be why you lollipop block with your forehand and have trouble crossing over. I also found with this grip that its hard to do forehands down the line. In this video there wasn't many of them.
I also realised when you get into backhand rallies your right foot creeps in front but you seem to cope when it comes to your forehand though.

There's my best attempt at constructive feedback.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:43pm
you sholud lower the height of your bh attacks boz its possible it might be smashed even if its spinny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zwu168 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/10/2009 at 8:56pm
You rely too much on arm power. Turn your body. And BH is too high, like yogi said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 12:21am
that no.1 club guy looks like has a disgusting forehand, good job putting him on ice :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 12:30am
are you sure that's the best guy you have in your club ? :)
729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH)
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theman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 12:31am
i hear a tocking noise on his bh, pips?
i lost my racquet

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http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joubtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 1:23am
Tape your practice sessions so you can clean up (ex. better positioning after each shot); I like your intent.  He's lucky that you allowed him some chances (you backed off).  Be more assertive in blocking & countering ( he actually popped up so many of your serves that I'm surprised you did not smash).  

Your opponent's technique is blah; his strength is determination period.

I think you're around 2100 U.S rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 4:38am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

You guys are having some fierce volleys. Good play. Clap

Just a minor thought... That guy is popping up a lot of your serves. You should have a fh smash for those in your arsenal. You know, where you step to the side of the table a little bit and do a table-sweeping fh smash right at the top of the bounce. Fast and deliberate.

 
Thanks Loop,
 
I know what your saying about the put away finisher.  I wish I had one but in the almost 6 years of my playing my backhand has always been able to do all the shots in the game.  My Forehand however has always pretty much been a one liner.  It can be good at smashing when I practise that, but then I can't loop as well with it and vice versa.  Right now My forehand can topspin loop the hell out of anything pretty much but my consistancy of a pure 100% smash is down to about 60%.  So I loop sidespin the ball when its higher.  Im not sure if this is a tenergy thing?  Because when I watch Boll receiving high balls he usually sidespins over and over again.....
 
Anyway way I love to counter loop over and over again as boll does more than finishing every shot 3rd ball, or losing every shot 3rd ball...
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 4:46am
Originally posted by Heimdallalso Heimdallalso wrote:

Nobody... & I mean nobody pops their collar like you bozbrisvegas! Wink
I feel better. I've been meaning to tell you that for weeks & weeks.

Enjoyed the vid.

For me, soft sponges are the way to go.
Seems to be working for your BH too.
Are you relaxed in your body or somewhat tight when you play?
I want you to have even more effectiveness/success.
Hit with/like a whip!!!

r e l a x

Good Hitting
Atleast there something "cool" about the way I look...  I'm shocked at how much weight I have been putting on since my girlfriend started living with me over 2 years now.  She feeds me like a pig, only with really yummy food all the time!...
 
Oh one of my students did a presentation on the topic of wearing your collar up as being cool...  it was persuasive presentation and it must have worked... lol
 
Well I had 3 beers before I played that so I was actually relaxed as I'm going to get, and as for the whipping thing - I felt just that day something really click into place within my stroke for backhand in particular.  Something very familiar about my stroke a bit like de ja vu.  I felt like I had body memory of something come back to what it used to be a final perfect unision with the weight of the setup at 170g, perfectly balanced.   The forehand also is there just not in the wide receive. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 4:55am
Originally posted by rupertgriffin rupertgriffin wrote:

Nice game.
It looks like you're backhand orientated because of your grip. Does your thumb stick up? Do you change grip to do forehand? This might be why you lollipop block with your forehand and have trouble crossing over. I also found with this grip that its hard to do forehands down the line. In this video there wasn't many of them.
I also realised when you get into backhand rallies your right foot creeps in front but you seem to cope when it comes to your forehand though.

There's my best attempt at constructive feedback.
totally agree
 
perfectly analysed !
 
I know this and I went all out heavy with the bh grip (I actually havent done this for a long time) but hell when a player continually goes to my backhand for serves and keeps blocking there thats what happns, if I misread and its on fh usually first fh is weak as.. 
 
when I have time or read it to go to fh then I change to forehand looping grip.   I am currently thinking I want to spend time training receiving with the "wrong grip" ie practise my strong bh grip against wide fh serves and vice versa.
 
usually what I do is play a guessing game.  Receive one with fh grip next with bh grip another inbetween grip.  I try to roll every shot except the ones which are on the opposite side of my grip, which are the ones which a push comes out.  This all in a strange bad way comes out to confuse my opponents who are mostly well trained and used to reading well trained players.  I am a bit of an anomoly.. (is that how you spell it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 4:57am
Originally posted by theman theman wrote:

i hear a tocking noise on his bh, pips?
no just primorac carbon like half the players in the top division.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 5:01am
Originally posted by joubtt joubtt wrote:

Tape your practice sessions so you can clean up (ex. better positioning after each shot); I like your intent.  He's lucky that you allowed him some chances (you backed off).  Be more assertive in blocking & countering ( he actually popped up so many of your serves that I'm surprised you did not smash).  

Your opponent's technique is blah; his strength is determination period.

I think you're around 2100 U.S rating.
I have no idea about how your rating system works but here I
is my whole tournament life of tt starting only a few years ago (ranked too high at the time since it was starting point)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 5:09am
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

are you sure that's the best guy you have in your club ? :)
Seref who I have got on tape is quite a bit higher than Jesse in my opinion, especially in experience of high level tournament play.  Seref has taken this season off, so Jesse was in 2nd place making him now the no.1..  I think..
 
His form hasnt been good as he told me, and he thought it would be good to watch this videoed so he could try to figure what has broken down in his game...
 
I know what has broken, its his fire and counterlooping.  He seemed like he didnt trust himself enough to beat me with a counter loop, instead opting for trying control me with blocks before he would go for it himself...  I dont know - but the thing is he can totally blitz players which I cant get anywhere near and yet I have had enough practise sessions with him so have a feeling for his low spin level style of play and on top of that I went into this match with a very very strong and strict strategy: "attack first regardless".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 5:25am
Finally I don't think anyone mentioned this but I had 3 match points against him.  1 of them I trully just was caught off by his viscous 3rd ball the second one really *&^% off since the night was almost over the table next to ours had stopped playing and ball went bouncing into the court next to me suprising me by how close it sounded coming to the barrier near me, it threw my concentration and I returned poorly.  The third ( I think this is the order anyway) I was sure I won the match and did my good shot or victory fist only to see the ball roll over the net and land on the inside corner and fall off the table - this one trully broke me!
 
Regardless I fought tooth and nail guys.  And the last thing nobody mentioned was something that make me *&^ myself lauging is what my team mate said right at the end.  "you were in that up to your n*ts"
 
I absolutely love that phrase, how dam Australian can you get?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rupertgriffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 7:28am
Maybe find a neutral grip? I figured out that I had to find one and found that my level suffered for the period of time that I was adjusting. My crossover is way better now though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 7:58am
I've tried to get used to a neutral grip and I try to do a bit of routine only using that but honestly my  shots are always just neutral.  I will continue practising it and my 2 other grips.  I know most people will say thats wrong but I have gotten this far playing this way without a coach and believe I can go further.  Winning by training is not the focus of my life.  Improving gradually enjoying playing games is.
 
I've been to a few group training session these couple of weeks and have philosophical problems with routines which tell me to hit easy balls to their strong points so they can practise.  I would prefer to constantly aim away and at there middle with as much variety and power / spin as possible constantly so there is absolutely no other thought in my mind when the situation arises.  I don't want to be a switch it on and off player.  I just want to do the right shot at every moment of play and that includes "unimportant" games besides I am here to enjoy life now and not live for a future which may or may not come.
 
Shoot me down if you will but I am against half the training styles I have seen.
 
these are good:
Multi ball
short return and then open
long return and open
chasing the elbow
anything where the coach feeds you
 
But I hate to aim to where the person is waiting and expecting.  I prefer to try to read body weight shifting and keep hitting their elbow until I can full power and the elbow is not a fixed point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicefrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2009 at 7:26pm
Nice one Boz, you see that winner you hit at 4:52 off his serve. I'd like to see you play more like that 2nd and 3rd ball attack from the forehand. You have a great backhand but against this guy they aren't penetrating enough to mess him up. A big forehand early on it the point would be much more unsettling. He serves pretty fast and long you could in theory loop every one of his serves if you wanted to

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2009 at 9:40am
Nicefrog, I tried to do those shots a few times, and I usually like to try to rip them off from the first point of their first serve.  Exactly for the reason you said, one of the coaches up here in Brisbane said to me that you should try to scare them in particular from the begining as you say unsettle them and worry them.  And yet I tried against him but I lost a few points going down that way.  I usually try to receive forehand sometimes and backhand sometimes, to put them off a bit.  But when they are not going on stick with what works.
 
 
I am sticking with solcion regardless if its not penetrating.  Its got everything I loved about Bryce with everything I didnt like about it perfected.
 
Bryce always had this kind of sometimes spin sometimes zero spin effect on my looping.  It had nice fling catapult feeling in the thick topsheet.  And yet the sponge made it have pretty much only one gear, fast, but the solcion has all that but is much slower which suits me more than I have ever realised before, I make lots of points now by people taking a few steps back only to realise i can do a super slow shot and then a much faster shot.  The slower paced rallies give me time to do my shots.  They still often block the same as if I was using a fast rubber but the blocks that come to me are so much easier to reloop and attack harder with my forehand.
 
anyway slightly going of topic here - I have a thread about my setup already.. lol
 
ps funny how solcion is almost the same price as tenergy.  It makes me want to cry paying so much for a slower less spinny rubber....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicefrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/12/2009 at 11:03am
It's interesting, it seems all you guys up there play this top spin flick to return service and your into it, faced paced rallies. All around my area here in Vic most people and myself included return service with a short chop or one with as much backspin on it as possible, then depending on how successful you were you either loop the next ball for a winner or return the other guys loop and step back and return them defence style until he hopefully misses one or you hit something big from a long range and get a winner or make it back to the table and start looping again. We almost all play with Chinese rubbers, I wonder if that has changed the way the local game has evolved. It's definalty more varied in speed (slow game then power loop and kills) rather than constant fast hitting like you guys play

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