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W0LovePP View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/08/2013 at 8:43pm
I know the wrists are very important in playing. I heard a Chinese coach once said that an even more advanced player would use his fingers.

How do the fingers help during play (not necessarily related to grip):
serves, backhand, forehand, smash, loops? In what ways do the fingers help, power, angels, stabilization?

This should apply to both shakehands and penholders.

Please share your tips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2013 at 9:03pm
At the most basic level, there's grip pressure and using the tip(s) or length of finger(s) to apply pressure to brace the racket and/or change the racket angle.

In some cases, it seems to be a necessity rather than an advanced technique.


Edited by racquetsforsale - 02/08/2013 at 9:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 12:10am
I once hurt my wrist and put a brace on it.  I noticed that when I was stroking the ball, I was naturally trying to compensate with my fingers for what was missing with my wrist. The simple reason is that the shakehand grip is supposed to have most of the pressure/control in the thumb and the finger so they work as a control lever and can also generate some power in addition to the wrist, forearm, arm/shoulder, abs and knees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote right2niru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 1:05am
Originally posted by W0LovePP W0LovePP wrote:

I know the wrists are very important in playing. I heard a Chinese coach once said that an even more advanced player would use his fingers.

How do the fingers help during play (not necessarily related to grip):
serves, backhand, forehand, smash, loops? In what ways do the fingers help, power, angels, stabilization?

This should apply to both shakehands and penholders.

Please share your tips.

This has been one of the most important aspect my current coach has been emphasizing on for a long time and due to bad habits you tend to forget. To keep it simple let me explain what he(Chinese coach) had to say regarding fingers -  one needs to learn to use your thumb and index finger for controlling your movement over the table pushes / loops / Blocks ; in fact at times he enforces us to learn to just spin using those 2 fingers and having the handle be free flowing inside the palms. Personally from my playing experience i feel if i use these fingers whenever i am close to the table in returns i am very consistent.
So yes wrists and fingers are very important aspect for control as much as your bodily movements and foot work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 4:26am
You'll find the answer of V-Grip here particularly useful as he details the function of each finger in a penhold grip

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57178
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 4:28am
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

Read this


Oh, someone posted it already. Lol
Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 4:57am
Last three fingers shouldn't be used that much. Thumb controls your backhand and Index controls your forehand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 6:01am
Originally posted by W0LovePP W0LovePP wrote:

I know the wrists are very important in playing. I heard a Chinese coach once said that an even more advanced player would use his fingers.

How do the fingers help during play (not necessarily related to grip):
serves, backhand, forehand, smash, loops? In what ways do the fingers help, power, angels, stabilization?

This should apply to both shakehands and penholders.

Please share your tips.

It's an old coaching guide. Let's just use the loop drive;
Beginners use their shoulders for the stroke.
As they get better, they use their body then shoulders
Advanced players use their body, then shoulders and snap their elbows then wrist. This is where most players stop advancing.
Elite [pro] players use body, then shoulder, then snap elbow and wrist with final control touch from fingers. This is why the top boys can vary their loop placement all over the table. That last touch finger control gives them the ability to vary the placement and spin. That is, a screw shot vs straight loop or side-top or whatever.
To me the penholders seem to be better at this last finger touch placement and spin especially at lower level. But I'm open to other opinions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 7:01am
If you watch that video of Zhuang DeDong giving effectively a seminar on his style
he demonstrates how on BH especially how he could make bh smashes with an incredibly short stroke by using his fingers to add snap to his shots.

I think that because with ph all the fingers are in contact with the blade rather than the handles make this much easier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W0LovePP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Last three fingers shouldn't be used that much. Thumb controls your backhand and Index controls your forehand. 


The index finger stabilizes with fh. Should the thumb be relaxed, or still pressured on the blade during fh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2013 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by W0LovePP W0LovePP wrote:

Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Last three fingers shouldn't be used that much. Thumb controls your backhand and Index controls your forehand. 


The index finger stabilizes with fh. Should the thumb be relaxed, or still pressured on the blade during fh?

You should still be pinching the blade with both fingers, but the control of the movement of the blade is from the index finger for the Forehand. 


Edited by kenneyy88 - 02/09/2013 at 12:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2013 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

If you watch that video of Zhuang DeDong giving effectively a seminar on his style
he demonstrates how on BH especially how he could make bh smashes with an incredibly short stroke by using his fingers to add snap to his shots.

Yes, that was a great video.  I felt like I was watching Bruce Lee demonstrating the "one-inch punch".   ZZD, the TT legend passed away on this first day of Lunar New Year. :(


Edited by shaolinTT - 02/10/2013 at 2:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaolinTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2013 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by shaolinTT shaolinTT wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

If you watch that video of Zhuang DeDong giving effectively a seminar on his style
he demonstrates how on BH especially how he could make bh smashes with an incredibly short stroke by using his fingers to add snap to his shots.

Yes, that was a great video.  I felt like I was watching Bruce Lee demonstrating the "one-inch punch".   ZZD, the TT legend passed away on this first day of Lunar New Year. :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2013 at 8:47am
Originally posted by shaolinTT shaolinTT wrote:

Originally posted by shaolinTT shaolinTT wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

If you watch that video of Zhuang DeDong giving effectively a seminar on his style
he demonstrates how on BH especially how he could make bh smashes with an incredibly short stroke by using his fingers to add snap to his shots.

Yes, that was a great video.  I felt like I was watching Bruce Lee demonstrating the "one-inch punch".   ZZD, the TT legend passed away on this first day of Lunar New Year. :(

Where can I find the above mentioned video of Zhuang DeDong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2013 at 10:50am
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Last three fingers shouldn't be used that much. Thumb controls your backhand and Index controls your forehand. 
Oh, boy... that is bad news for me, I think I use the last three fingers quite a bit, especially on power drives, and especially on the bh... 
Yes, the aforementioned videos would be nice to see. A link, anyone?


Edited by JacekGM - 04/06/2013 at 10:51am
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/06/2013 at 11:05am
For me, I'm learning to NOT apply any grip pressure at all, until just before I hit the ball. Again it's index finger for FH, thumb for BH. It's kinda similar to badminton in a way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2013 at 8:39am
Just a quick comment. 
If you are playing shakehands and you want a BH similar to ZJKs or Kreanga, then I would make sure the the thumb is pressing against the paddle slightly above the long axis of the paddle. Thumb is parallel with the long axis. When executing your strokes lighten the pressure on the index finger and "press and wipe/smear" lightly with you thumb as you execute your stroke mechanics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2013 at 9:27am
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

Just a quick comment. 
If you are playing shakehands and you want a BH similar to ZJKs or Kreanga, then I would make sure the the thumb is pressing against the paddle slightly above the long axis of the paddle. Thumb is parallel with the long axis. When executing your strokes lighten the pressure on the index finger and "press and wipe/smear" lightly with you thumb as you execute your stroke mechanics.
Thanks, V-Griper! Interesting. This goes a little against what I was previously told, but amazingly it seems to be doing the trick for me (not Kreanga's bh yet, thoughBig smile). Thank you again.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2013 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

Just a quick comment. 
If you are playing shakehands and you want a BH similar to ZJKs or Kreanga, then I would make sure the the thumb is pressing against the paddle slightly above the long axis of the paddle. Thumb is parallel with the long axis. When executing your strokes lighten the pressure on the index finger and "press and wipe/smear" lightly with you thumb as you execute your stroke mechanics.
Thanks, V-Griper! Interesting. This goes a little against what I was previously told, but amazingly it seems to be doing the trick for me (not Kreanga's bh yet, thoughBig smile). Thank you again.

Be  aware that that may require you to grip switch between your FH and BH. When you go back to your FH grip your thumb comes back down and the emphasis shifts from your thumb to your index finger. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/07/2013 at 5:54pm
V-Griper
"""Be  aware that that may require you to grip switch between your FH and BH. When you go back to your FH grip your thumb comes back down and the emphasis shifts from your thumb to your index finger"""

Yes, of course one has to change the grip like that, otherwise the thumb sort of would be in the way for forehand execution. Thanks.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2013 at 10:05am
Sorry, I should have elaborated. What I meant was that while you can hit a FH from BH biased grip it introduces a whole set of limitations on what you can effectively do with your FH. So in order to optimize for both BH and FH you would have to invest the time and effort into grip switching.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2013 at 10:11am
Sometimes you have to make changes in your grip to improve stroke mechanics, but it is harder than it sounds and with even small changes you may go through a period where you have no confidence in anything you do.  It is the ninth circle of table tennis hell. This is especially true if you adopt something that requires substantially larger changes between forehand and backhand than you used before. 
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