|
|
Sealing Blade with Woodworking Varnish? |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
Aman1234
Member Joined: 12/09/2011 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 92 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 10/21/2015 at 9:42am |
|
If the blade was originally finished with Varnish, I would not recommend that lacquer be used over it. Problem is we do not know what if anything was used at the factory. If you must, you need to lightly sand and apply very light coats. I believe varnish over lacquer is safer than lacquer over varnish.
|
||
BTY TBS
FH Tibhar Evolution FX-P BH Donic Bluefire M3 |
||
Sponsored Links | ||
zeropong
Member Joined: 04/01/2006 Location: SC, USA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Have used this on over 1000 blades over the years, none of the KTL or 729 blades come with lacquer, and many players want them sealed prior to glue. Not saying it's the best, but it works fast and does not fill the wood grain as it has pretty good penetration. (edit to address smudging) I have never found this product to smudge printing on a blade, it is a spray so as long as you do not aggressively wipe it around you will not have this problem.
Edited by zeropong - 10/21/2015 at 7:52am |
||
estregan
Member Joined: 10/02/2015 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 52 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Will polyurethane smudge the blade printing? I tried to use lacquer sanding sealer and it smudged the blade printing.
|
||
puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
let me give ->YOU<- a personal advice.
don't use varnish! use lacquer. |
||
in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-12-oz-Aerosol-Clear-Shellac-408/100176744
i usually spray around the edge heavily at first, then on both faces, then take a disposable t-shirt or sock (lintless) and rub off the excess do not have a long elapsed time (usually about 20-30 seconds) adds a very very miniscule amount of weight, doesn't really affect the speed, but it does prevent splintering :)
|
||
GMan4911
Silver Member Joined: 08/31/2012 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 830 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I've been using Deft Sanding Sealer to seal my blades. Very easy to apply and dries very fast, less than 1/2 hour. About 2 quick sprays per side is all you need. No need to sand unless you spray too much.
|
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I play a combination game. I lightly seal the FH side with one coat of satin Miniwax (rubbed in, not thickly coated). I put two coats of sealant on the BH side as I use glue sheets that would destroy un-sealed wood when removed.
|
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
BarryB
Beginner Joined: 01/23/2013 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Been a while since the last post. I've a question about blade sealing.
In the previous posts especially Hookshot and Tommyzai explained how they use Poly-U products to varnish blades. It was stated that the playing characteristics only change when you apply too many layers.
I was wondering what to do if you only want to seal one side of the blade?
E.g. I play modern defensive with a Donic Deplay Senso blade (Gabon en Anegre dampening outer plies) with TSP curl P4 0.5 mm on BH and Xiom Vega Japan 2.0mm on FH.
Besides the slower woods, the blade is also quit flexible. For the BH it's quit okay the way it is, I don't think I want to change it. But the FH feels a bit mushy at times and I think I would like it a tiny bit harder. I also expect to change my FH a lot more often than the BH rubber.
Would varnishing my FH side with 2 layers of a Poly-U wood varnish (so not varnishing the BH) also effect my BH side? Or not.
|
||
Ranger-man
Gold Member Joined: 03/27/2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 987 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hey Tommy, I bought a Violin from you, about a year and a half ago. It is sealed and is shiny. I had to wait extra long to let the rubber set on it because of that. But it is a beautiful seal, what is that?
|
||
Darker Speed 90 10mm: Dawei IQUL
Ahinoki Lutz Spruce Jpen: 729 SuperFX Member: 1-ply Hinoki Club Violin/Acoustic Clan The speed of a Rhino and the power of a Gazelle! |
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I agree, I have used both and am using the can after the spray ran out. No more clogged nozzels. A small can can do dozens of blades.
|
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Water!
I like Varathane in a jar, not spray.
|
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Water based and mineral based are both very tough. You will not be able to tell the difference when done.
The mineral based gives a "small" golden hue compared to the crystal clear finish of the water based. This shows most when you have very pretty wood.
Read the methods in this thread and use the "TEE shirt" method. |
||
pokerpete
Silver Member Joined: 09/05/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
i want to try sealing a spare blade..... what do you guys recommend as far as water based or oil based?
i have access to full line of min-wax products at home depot im thinking water based, satin, fast dry, wipe on, by minwax........ but wondering if the oil base one will hold up better in the long run?
|
||
Blade:Stiga Sense 7.6/ Timo ZLC FH: Tenergy 05FX BH: Tibhar Q5 Sound |
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I use: http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/60-352-clear-finish-polyurethane/varathane-polyurethane-diamond-semi-gloss-620633.aspx
But in Satin finish. Blade Sealing by Tommy Zai *Prepare blade first. If you have to lightly sand, do it
carefully with a fine gauge sponge sanding block-DRY. If you wet-sand a bare
wood blade it might soften the wood and could deform it. Do not round off blade
edges. Use rubbing alcohol to clean. Let dry (a few minutes). Now you're ready
. . . VARATHANE DIAMOND INTERIOR WOOD FINISH-SATIN (not
gloss)-#2002-61. 1. Stir can well without shaking (causes air bubbles). 2. Dip the corner (twisted or folded up a little to provide
a nice little flat area) of clean, dry cotton cloth* and quickly rub the sealer
into the blade and with a technique that covers evenly. I go in circles
starting at the center of the face of the blade and work my way to the outer
edges, then wipe along the side edge (perimeter) of the blade where the edge
tape will go, then quickly return to the face of the blade to wipe off any
spill over from the edge sealing with some light vertical strokes from handle
out over top of blade. You might want to stroke a nice even level line across
the top of the handle where the bottom edge of the rubber will go; however, I
think it looks better and strengthens the blade to seal the wings/shoulder.
Some prefer to use a sponge or china bristle brush when applying, but that leaves
a heavy coat and/or streaks of sealant. THAT IS NO GOOD IMO. The trick is to
rub the sealant INTO the blade, then gently wipe off the excess with the cloth.
3. Wait one hour, then polish with a clean dry cloth. 4. Repeat. 5. Repeat a third time ONLY if the blade is like bare porous
wood or if you want a stiffer lacquered effect (I have over sealed and made a
mess. My blade looked like an over protected night table . . . hard as a rock
and too thick). Luckily, I managed to fix this by sanding with a fine gauge wet
sanding sponge and it took hours to repair my disaster. But only do this if you
mess up, which you shouldn't. However, I should mention many of the Chinese
players are over-sealing to stiffen the blade. Some call over-sealing
"lacquering." There are also other product and techniques
specifically designed for lacquering, but I recommend using Varathane and
adjusting the number of layers. 6. Let harden overnight. 7. Affix your rubbers! I use glue sheets and NEVER get
splinters when removing!!!!!! *Use a cotton cloth or an expensive paper towel like Bounty
that will not leave lint of fall apart and get stuck to your wet sealer. I use
an old pair of 100% cotton boxer shorts. :-). I don't remember who turned me on to this Varathane, but it was on MYTT. Edited by tommyzai - 12/17/2011 at 5:27pm |
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
Cho!
Super Member Joined: 05/23/2011 Location: Kansas City, MO Status: Offline Points: 289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
How does Spar Urethane compare to Poly U? I Just got my new blade in the mail 30 minutes ago and found a can of both Spar and Poly in my basement. Which would work better for singly ply hinoki?
|
||
Jpen: Senkoh-1 w. Xiom Vega Pro
SH: Expert All+ w. TG3 Neo & Illumina |
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I like the gloss. Some think the semi or satin gives better adhesion but I have not found that. If you use enough coats to make a smooth finish with any of them, it will need to be lightly broken with #400 or #600 sand paper for the glue to grip. I think the satin or semi look is "IN" the finish, not on the surface.
|
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
This is my fav but I use other Minwax products also.The rub on Poly works well also.
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/interior-clear-protective-finishes/minwax-fastdrying-polyurethane I think this is the one Tommy uses. It is water based. Can be had in clear or satin. http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=70 Edited by Hookshot - 12/15/2011 at 3:54pm |
||
bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
but that would render the blade ilegal since the outer ply must look and feel like wood
|
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Obviously you are not a woodworker. There are many methods to use any varnish besides a brush or paint roller. A little use of the serch function will bring up some of these methods. Also, just read page one of this thread. I have put one here, used by TommyZia and I. He and I have done hundreds of blades.
Seal ALL blades. One coat of Poly-U will not change a blade. My fav is Minwax Poly Quick Dry, Satin. Dip the corner of a lint free rag in it, rub it into the wood. Then wipe it off, let dry. If it is very open grain wood, use two or three coats. Apply about 10 minutes apart, then dry for one hour. Done. You "might" be able to feel a little difference on an ALL- or DEF blade. I can't tell you. I do not use slow blades. OFF- to OFF+, you can not feel the difference with one or two coats. I have done tests by comparing an unsealed blade to a sealed blade many times. Bouncing a ball on the bare blades, (OFF- or faster) two coats gave a "slightly higher" sound on "some" of the blades. With rubbers on the blade, (blind test) NO ONE could pick the sealed blade. I have done tests with up to 10 coats of Poly-U. Varathane works the same. Both brands make water or mineral based finish. When dry, both are water proof. Water based gives a crystal clear finish while mineral based adds a slight golden glo to the wood. If you use many coats for a "table top" finish, you must "lightly" sand with #320 to break the shine so the glue will stick better. With one or two coats, the glue holds fine and will stay on the sponge 95% of the time when the rubber is removed. I would not use "Made for Table Tennis" sealers as they do not even tell you what they are made of and they cost too much. Tests by Woodworkers Magazine have shown Poly-U to be the strongest, most scratch resistant, waterproof finish commonally available. A small can will do dozens of blades. If you use water based glue, remember to seal the edges of the blade. Edited by Hookshot - 12/14/2011 at 4:09pm |
||
Davey
Member Joined: 11/22/2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 70 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
use a sealer like any of the brands- Joola do a great light one. why use normal thick heavy wood varnish designed to protect against rain and weather or at the very least to protect wooden floors-DONT CHEAP OUT ON A SEALER AFTER SPENDING THE MONEY ON A BLADE ITS A FALSE ECONOMY AND VERY FOOLISH I wouldnt dream of destroying a new blade with thick varnish plus it would weigh ALOT more.
|
||
David
|
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If I don't varnish with Poly-U, my leg warps when in S. China.
|
||
Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Self-webbing (?) acrylate emulsions, polyurethane emulsions, teflon. Water based.
|
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Listen to Hookshot. He knows. After all, he varnishes his wooden leg semi-annually. :-).
|
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
Hookshot
Gold Member Joined: 07/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Imago,
Read the can please and see what it is made from. Poly-U maybe?
|
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That's right!! Just be sure not to walk on the blade for 24-hours. LOL
|
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
W/b floor varnish is OK with me. I buy a bucket, varnish the floor twice and always keep 2-3 bottles of 100 ml for the blades. A gallon is about $40 around here.
|
||
player87
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks. The main issue for me is not to loose unique characteristics of the blade. That's why I am asking about it.
|
||
tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I know a guy who rubs the blade with the grease off his forehead. The problem is the rubber usually flies off in matches and knocks the opponent unconscious.
|
||
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
|
||
Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
In the old days, very few players bothered with varnish as the VOC glue also sealed the blade.
|
||
Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
|
||
assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I use fast dry minwax that I had left from when i did my garage.
I apply only 1 layer and apply it with 8-fold VIVA paper towel. Next day I sand with whatever automotive sandpaper I find in my garage, usually 1000 or higher. I sand very little, just to take the tiny microscopic grains out. The blades become BEAUTIFUL after the sealing. The wood gets that tan color and it looks so perfectly smooth and homogeneous. It looks like a very expensive blade. I love the finish of a blade after sealing. Even after a single layer, that has been sanded down some too, I have never experienced any splintering of any form afterwards.
|
||
puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
|
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |