Spinny & deceptive short pip

Stiga clippa is awesome on the BH. It's very spinny and pretty disruptive in pace for the opponent. You can open-loop backspin and punish dead balls or no spin returned balls. Blocking is also pretty good. I heard Joola Tango Ultra is also good and I will try it next and let you know how it plays

pnachtwey wrote: That would be a good one but it would make the paddle heavy.  The real money is in reducing the effect of the Higgs boson so thing would be lighter and be moved more cheaply.

It's just a matter of time before some table tennis company claims that their rubber or blade is enriched with the Higgs boson, and as a result you will play like Ma Long.

Baal wrote: capablanca8 wrote: Baal wrote: I can say that Baxter F1A is so soft and slow as to be almost useless, unless, perhaps, you are a chopper who uses very thin sponge.  I am not one of those, but could imagine it would work that way. Most seem to say that the F1A version is very fast.  Could it be that you are referring to a different Baxster?  I believe there are different sponges depending on the version.  At any rate, I'm wondering if you can spin with them or if this is a more classic pip with little spin.  Thanks. Oops!! My mistake!    You are right.  I was thinking of Baxster D25.  I have not tried the F1A version

Stiga Radical

bbkon wrote: capablanca8 wrote: Baal wrote: I can say that Baxter F1A is so soft and slow as to be almost useless, unless, perhaps, you are a chopper who uses very thin sponge.  I am not one of those, but could imagine it would work that way. Most seem to say that the F1A version is very fast.  Could it be that you are referring to a different Baxster?  I believe there are different sponges depending on the version.  At any rate, I'm wondering if you can spin with them or if this is a more classic pip with little spin.  Thanks. who said is very fast?

Well, American Table Tennis lists F1A as the fast version. http://www.americantabletennis.com/Baxter_F1_A_p/bf1a.htm
They have Baxster D25 as the slow one. 

Paddle Palace also lists F1A as the fast Baxster and D25 as the slow one.  (And then a customer review had this to say:  "Looking for speed? You got it. Way too fast. I felt like this rubber is faster than Mambo H from Joola so be careful this rubber makes the ball really bounce off.")

Are their numbers just not accurate?

capablanca8 wrote: Baal wrote: I can say that Baxter F1A is so soft and slow as to be almost useless, unless, perhaps, you are a chopper who uses very thin sponge.  I am not one of those, but could imagine it would work that way. Most seem to say that the F1A version is very fast.  Could it be that you are referring to a different Baxster?  I believe there are different sponges depending on the version.  At any rate, I'm wondering if you can spin with them or if this is a more classic pip with little spin.  Thanks.

Oops!! My mistake!    You are right.  I was thinking of Baxster D25.  I have not tried the F1A version

decoi wrote: that can be done with some of the inverted rubbers as well. and i dont mean anti

Baal wrote: Everything is a tradeoff and some things are mutually exclusive.  You can't simultaneously have more spin and less spin

You can get deception and spin at the same time by using a really hard sponged H3. The blocks often give back backspin. Very different from the softer H3.

Does anyone know how these 2 pips out rubbers play?

--TSP Super Spinpips (regular or 21 sponge)
--Donic Baxster F1A

Thanks.

I have to think hard to remember a  pip spinnier than Hexer ....yes maybe Spinpips, but the player was  a pro

I agree very much that the deception originates with the skill of the user.

however, if you are looking for a rubber, that allows you to play sp counterhit but also allows some spin reversal shots and fantastic ability to change pace - from soft block to bh smash a la Fukuhara then Armstrong Attack 8 is the best imo. It is very fast and the pimples are trapezoid + cylinder and get their med pips qualities from the strong yet flexible rubber. the pimples wont break off unlike radical so a sheet of Attack 8 should last a couple of seasons
There are 2 kinds 'attack 8 M' and 'attack 8 L'(wider pips) and 2 types of sponge - pink 43 degree for more aggresive play and a yellow softer sponge which might be used for chopping with a slower blade.

The bad news is that this is an advanced rubber and you really need the advanced backhand skills in the fukuhara or Deng Yaping sort of style to make the most of it
   

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  That is, you will hit the ball square in what should be the sweet spot and with what should be the correct racket angle, and the ball just squibs off in some strange direction.  It doesn't happen very much but it is still disconcerting and  I never could master them.  I have not experienced that with anything else.  One guy here I know has used them for years and he is my worst nightmare for an opponent.
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Edited by decoi - 07/03/2012 at 10:30am

yhbae wrote: Does such pip exist? Spinny enough to do some light loops/flips while deceptive when blocking and light touch returns? 802-40 seems to have close to zero deception. I believe this will be the case also for Raystorm, Tango Ultra and other similar rubbers. 802-1 doesn't seem to allow for any looping - the ball just slips off. I'm looking at Flarestorm II and Spectol or Spectol 21 right now. Are any of these worth trying out?

In my opinion it cannot exist.  As with most things, it is a tradeoff, and the available rubbers lie on a spectrum -- things like Raystorm are more like inverted, less deceptive, easier to learn (but are still SP with advantages and disadvantages).  They can be very spinny.  You can learn to be effective pretty quickly with these.  Things like Spectol and Challenger are very deceptive, much harder to learn, and much less spinny in general.  They punish any deviation from perfect short pips technique.  Challenger in particular really seems best suited for penholders.  However, the one and only rubber that I have tried (and I tried many) that does kind of have some properties of both of these extremes is Stiga Radical.  It is very soft which allows generation of spin but the aspect ratio of the pips (short but very thin and flexible) makes them kind of strange, and definitely hard to play against.  You will force lots of errors, will probably make many unexplainable errors yourself for a long time.  That is, you will hit the ball square in what should be the sweet spot and with what should be the correct racket angle, and the ball just squibs off in some strange direction.  It doesn't happen very much but it is still disconcerting and  I never could master them.  I have not experienced that with anything else.  One guy here I know has used them for years and he is my worst nightmare for an opponent.


Edited by Baal - 07/03/2012 at 10:25am