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Spinny & deceptive short pip |
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yhbae
Super Member Joined: 01/23/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Posted: 07/03/2012 at 12:43am |
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Does such pip exist? Spinny enough to do some light loops/flips while deceptive when blocking and light touch returns?
802-40 seems to have close to zero deception. I believe this will be the case also for Raystorm, Tango Ultra and other similar rubbers. 802-1 doesn't seem to allow for any looping - the ball just slips off. I'm looking at Flarestorm II and Spectol or Spectol 21 right now. Are any of these worth trying out? |
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yhbae
Super Member Joined: 01/23/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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And also Stiga Clippa.
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yogi_bear
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stiga radical. sometimes it behaves like a med pip. a bit harder to adjust to at first though
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yhbae
Super Member Joined: 01/23/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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So is it spinny enough to do some decent serves/light loops/flips? Thanks.
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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yes, radical is spinny but when you go to a counterhitting part of the game ome times the ball is unpredictable in its spin or no spin effect and also soem of the balls it hit tends to suddenly slow down affecting your opponents pace
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yhbae
Super Member Joined: 01/23/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Are those effects happening because of the way you hit the ball, or is it more random? |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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yhbae, I think you understand perfectly. If the pips can generate spin predictably like 802-40 and others you mentioned then the pips will not be deceptive. I play with 802 1.5mm too and I don't think they are deceptive at all. I have two hard bats, one with Peacekeeper and the other with Dr Evil. This can be slightly deceptive and they do get some spin reversal. Neither Peacekeeper or Dr Evil are very spinny.
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yogi_bear
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the radical itself has this unpredictability even if you use the same stroke
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stefashka
Silver Member Joined: 11/22/2010 Location: Moldova Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Short pips are primary designed for attacking and blocking (and chopping, but it's an advanced function), not for deceiving. With SP, most of deception comes from the player who knows how to handle the pips. Yeah, flatter trajectory and ability to hit through spin gives an edge, but still - you should be able to use them, i.e. move fast to be on the ball in time and use right strokes.
I think that less spinny pips can help a player to be more deceptive because it's easier to manipulate spin, change pace and direction using them, so Spectol and 802 should be the primary candidates for you. From my experience, I would add TSP Tyranno and Andro Hexer Pips (normal and Plus), but I would recommend to use thinner sponges for most cases... You can also look at the medium pips as they keep the ability of fast attacking, but provide more "sinking" balls and even less susceptible to incoming spin.
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Darker 7P-2A CP - Dignics 09c, TSP Curl P3α
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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blowfish+ its very disturbing is like a long pip in a short pip skin
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stefashka
Silver Member Joined: 11/22/2010 Location: Moldova Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Then ITTF would not allow it, yogi All pips are predictable, but you have to be a pips player to predict them right - that's the secret SP are the easiest to understand, LP are the most complex, but still they are pretty predictable. |
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Darker 7P-2A CP - Dignics 09c, TSP Curl P3α
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FiskenDK
Member Joined: 07/30/2010 Location: cph Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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try nittaku morristo its very deceptive for short pips.
there is night and day between short pips. doing the exact same stroke on return of light topspin shot, the return result for opponent range from light backspin (morristo), no spin (extend po), light top spin (hexer po and spectol 21) morristo and xtend have short wide hard pips.
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Amultart : FH - Tenzone SF 2.0 BH-morristo sp 2.1
ALC : FH - Calibra spin max BH-extend po max inf zlc: FH - Adidas p3 max BH - hexer pips |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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stef, thats the thing with the radical. its unpredictable even to the one using it. i have seen people who are about 2300 use it in their forehand and its really amazing though the user would also get caught in its unpredictability
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stefashka
Silver Member Joined: 11/22/2010 Location: Moldova Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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I probably know what you mean, but I should check it by myself The other pips with a similar description is Joola Tango Ultra. Both seems to vanish from stocks being replaced by their successors (Stiga Royal and Joola Express Ultra). Hopefully I will be able to try them next month - I want to spend this month polishing my skills with the pips I already have.
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Darker 7P-2A CP - Dignics 09c, TSP Curl P3α
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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In my opinion it cannot exist. As with most things, it is a tradeoff, and the available rubbers lie on a spectrum -- things like Raystorm are more like inverted, less deceptive, easier to learn (but are still SP with advantages and disadvantages). They can be very spinny. You can learn to be effective pretty quickly with these. Things like Spectol and Challenger are very deceptive, much harder to learn, and much less spinny in general. They punish any deviation from perfect short pips technique. Challenger in particular really seems best suited for penholders. However, the one and only rubber that I have tried (and I tried many) that does kind of have some properties of both of these extremes is Stiga Radical. It is very soft which allows generation of spin but the aspect ratio of the pips (short but very thin and flexible) makes them kind of strange, and definitely hard to play against. You will force lots of errors, will probably make many unexplainable errors yourself for a long time. That is, you will hit the ball square in what should be the sweet spot and with what should be the correct racket angle, and the ball just squibs off in some strange direction. It doesn't happen very much but it is still disconcerting and I never could master them. I have not experienced that with anything else. One guy here I know has used them for years and he is my worst nightmare for an opponent. Edited by Baal - 07/03/2012 at 10:25am |
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Baal
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Flarestorm II is very very fast, which makes it a bit tricky to learn.
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decoi
Gold Member Joined: 09/25/2011 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1375 |
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That is, you will hit the ball square in what should be the sweet spot and with what should be the correct racket angle, and the ball just squibs off in some strange direction. It doesn't happen very much but it is still disconcerting and I never could master them. I have not experienced that with anything else. One guy here I know has used them for years and he is my worst nightmare for an opponent. [/QUOTE] that can be done with some of the inverted rubbers as well. and i dont mean anti
Edited by decoi - 07/03/2012 at 10:30am |
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Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Maybe, I have never actually seen anything else like this. With Radical it is really strange how it can occasionally misfire by so much for no obvious reason. Your opponent, though, will have no idea what you are doing when you make your shots, and you will gain more than you lose -- but have to accept that sometimes you will miss badly and won't know why. |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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I agree very much that the deception originates with the skill of the user.
however, if you are looking for a rubber, that allows you to play sp counterhit but also allows some spin reversal shots and fantastic ability to change pace - from soft block to bh smash a la Fukuhara then Armstrong Attack 8 is the best imo. It is very fast and the pimples are trapezoid + cylinder and get their med pips qualities from the strong yet flexible rubber. the pimples wont break off unlike radical so a sheet of Attack 8 should last a couple of seasons There are 2 kinds 'attack 8 M' and 'attack 8 L'(wider pips) and 2 types of sponge - pink 43 degree for more aggresive play and a yellow softer sponge which might be used for chopping with a slower blade. The bad news is that this is an advanced rubber and you really need the advanced backhand skills in the fukuhara or Deng Yaping sort of style to make the most of it |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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decoi
Gold Member Joined: 09/25/2011 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1375 |
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this only happened to me when i had a fresh H3 prov ( old version) and when i blocked incoming top spin the ball rebounded with a massive wobble but it didt really happen after that bight as it got more and more broken in
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Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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Kolev
Gold Member Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
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I have to think hard to remember a pip spinnier than Hexer ....yes maybe Spinpips, but the player was a pro
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2337 |
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[Off-topic]
Kolev, I see that u are from Belgium. In what division do u play? Also can u explain their rating system? It looks complicated.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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capablanca8
Super Member Joined: 08/04/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Does anyone know how these 2 pips out rubbers play?
--TSP Super Spinpips (regular or 21 sponge) --Donic Baxster F1A Thanks. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Everything is a tradeoff and some things are mutually exclusive. You can't simultaneously have more spin and less spin. Raystorm is by far the spinniest SP that I have tried (I've tried a lot but not everything), but there are many others that are faster and almost as spinny. Flarestorm II comes to mind. I can say that Baxter F1A is so soft and slow as to be almost useless, unless, perhaps, you are a chopper who uses very thin sponge. I am not one of those, but could imagine it would work that way. I haven't tried Super Spinpips. I am told that various forms of Spectol are the most popular among women Chinese province level shakehand SP players, for whatever that is worth. Armstrong SP are definitely not for beginners, and I would say the same thing for Butterfly Challenger, but if you can use them, you will drive people crazy. You kind of need to experiment a little and find out what makes you most effective. It seems to me that the differences between different SP rubbers are large compared to different inverted. I think there are more parameters that can be changed to affect performance, especially pip shape, orientation, length, hardness, and adhesiveness, as well as sponge
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cotdt
Gold Member Joined: 10/19/2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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You can get deception and spin at the same time by using a really hard sponged H3. The blocks often give back backspin. Very different from the softer H3.
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Nittaku Resound
FH: Joola Timeless BH: Joola Timeless |
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cole_ely
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Baal is starting to sound like me. Gee, how boringly logical.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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APW46
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Totally inclusively correct.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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who has tried patisuma III OR II
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swampthing
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I experienced some unexplained variation when I was experimenting with the cheapest range of inverted rubbers. *Cough* quality control |
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Xiom Zetro Quad: FH: Hexer HD, BH: Hexer HD
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capablanca8
Super Member Joined: 08/04/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Most seem to say that the F1A version is very fast. Could it be that you are referring to a different Baxster? I believe there are different sponges depending on the version. At any rate, I'm wondering if you can spin with them or if this is a more classic pip with little spin. Thanks. |
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