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Rules: Catching the ball in play

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    Posted: 10/31/2012 at 9:08pm
In Tennis there is a clear rule, if you catch the ball/or touch the ball before the second bounce, even if the ball is going out, you lose the point. For example, you'll see pro tennis players matrix dodge balls that are going out.
However, this is not the case for TT. You'll often see the pros catch balls in the air that haven't bounced yet, or allow a ball to hit their body. 
My guess is that this is an unwritten rule. However, there are instances when close to table players touch balls within the table that could be in or out. Also, if there isn't an umpire present, what if I purposely hit a high long ball for my opponent to catch. Then I argue, that I won the point :)

Edit: thanks for the detailed clarification guys.

-Solved-
2.10.01.03if, after he or she has made a service or a return, the ball touches anything other than the net assembly before being struck by an opponent;

2.10.01.04if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;
2.10.01.05if an opponent obstructs the ball;
Law 2.5.8 A player obstructs the ball if he, or anything he wears or carries, touches it in play when it is above or travelling towards the playing surface, not having touched his court since last being struck by his opponent.

= you lose if you touch/catch the ball when it's flying over/inside the table even if it's clearly going out
= you can touch/catch the ball when it flies past the table



Edited by popperlocker - 11/01/2012 at 11:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 9:15pm
If the ball clearly passes the end of the table you are allowed to catch it. If the ball is caught over the table, even if it's clearly going out, the player would lose the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 9:18pm
It's not unwritten, it's an actual rule. The rule used to be that if you touched or caught the ball before it bounced or hit the ground, it was your opponents point. This caused problems: if Player A smashes a ball directly at Player B's body (not trying to hit the table even). The rule was changed and is now what you stated. If you touch the ball when it is still over the table, you lose the point (even if it's flying out), outside the table edge you can catch it.
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Originally posted by danhs danhs wrote:

It's not unwritten, it's an actual rule. The rule used to be that if you touched or caught the ball before it bounced or hit the ground, it was your opponents point. This caused problems: if Player A smashes a ball directly at Player B's body (not trying to hit the table even). The rule was changed and is now what you stated. If you touch the ball when it is still over the table, you lose the point (even if it's flying out), outside the table edge you can catch it.
 
yes this was back when tables were green and it was to 21 :)
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I believe you loose the point if the ball is over the table or heading towards the table. So shot from the side - which may or may not hit the table cannot be caught - as it is travelling towards the table. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

If the ball clearly passes the end of the table you are allowed to catch it. If the ball is caught over the table, even if it's clearly going out, the player would lose the point.
Originally posted by danhs danhs wrote:

It's not unwritten, it's an actual rule. The rule used to be that if you touched or caught the ball before it bounced or hit the ground, it was your opponents point. This caused problems: if Player A smashes a ball directly at Player B's body (not trying to hit the table even). The rule was changed and is now what you stated. If you touch the ball when it is still over the table, you lose the point (even if it's flying out), outside the table edge you can catch it.

 

Hmm.. I did not know this. It's hard to believe this rule, because if this is true, then I've given away many points that I should have won.. I remember many instances where my opponent goes for a close to table block(paddle inside the table) and accidentally hits the ball before the bounce.  He'll say it was going out, and I give him the point.

I can't be the only person that didn't know "you can't touch the ball inside the table"?? Because about 4 or so people that I played with have taken my points Angry
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2.10 A POINT
2.10.01 Unless the rally is a let, a player shall score a point
2.10.01.01 if an opponent fails to make a correct service;
2.10.01.02 if an opponent fails to make a correct return;
2.10.01.03 if, after he or she has made a service or a return, the ball touches anything other than the net assembly before being struck by an opponent;
2.10.01.04 if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;
2.10.01.05 if an opponent obstructs the ball;
2.10.01.06 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;
2.10.01.07 if an opponent strikes the ball with a side of the racket blade whose surface does not comply with the requirements of 2.4.3, 2.4.4 and 2.4.5;
2.10.01.08 if an opponent, or anything an opponent wears or carries, moves the playing surface;
2.10.01.09 if an opponent, or anything an opponent wears or carries, touches the net assembly;
2.10.01.10 if an opponent's free hand touches the playing surface;
2.10.01.11 if a doubles opponent strikes the ball out of the sequence established by the first server and first receiver;
2.10.01.12 as provided under the expedite system (2.15.4).
2.10.01.13 if both players or pairs are in a wheelchair due to a physical disability and
2.10.01.13.01 his or her opponent does not maintain a minimum contact with the seat or cushion(s), with the back of the thigh, when the ball is struck;
2.10.01.13.02 his or her opponent touches the table with either hand before striking the ball;
2.10.01.13.03 his or her opponent's footrest or foot touches the floor during play.
2.10.01.14 as provided under the order of play (2.8.3).
 
 
 
A long time ago "to 21pts", i remember you couldn't hit the ball with your racket after it passed the edge, point would be awarded to your opponent...then agin even then i didn't know the 'official" rules but we all played by that one rule.
Highlighted in red there's no mention of point awarded to opponent if touched, caught or body blocked after passing the edge?


Edited by The Shakehander - 10/31/2012 at 11:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by The Shakehander The Shakehander wrote:

2.10 A POINT
2.10.01 Unless the rally is a let, a player shall score a point
2.10.01.01 if an opponent fails to make a correct service;
2.10.01.02 if an opponent fails to make a correct return;
2.10.01.03 if, after he or she has made a service or a return, the ball touches anything other than the net assembly before being struck by an opponent;
2.10.01.04 if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;
2.10.01.05 if an opponent obstructs the ball;
2.10.01.06 if an opponent deliberately strikes the ball twice in succession;
2.10.01.07 if an opponent strikes the ball with a side of the racket blade whose surface does not comply with the requirements of 2.4.3, 2.4.4 and 2.4.5;
2.10.01.08 if an opponent, or anything an opponent wears or carries, moves the playing surface;
2.10.01.09 if an opponent, or anything an opponent wears or carries, touches the net assembly;
2.10.01.10 if an opponent's free hand touches the playing surface;
2.10.01.11 if a doubles opponent strikes the ball out of the sequence established by the first server and first receiver;
2.10.01.12 as provided under the expedite system (2.15.4).
2.10.01.13 if both players or pairs are in a wheelchair due to a physical disability and
2.10.01.13.01 his or her opponent does not maintain a minimum contact with the seat or cushion(s), with the back of the thigh, when the ball is struck;
2.10.01.13.02 his or her opponent touches the table with either hand before striking the ball;
2.10.01.13.03 his or her opponent's footrest or foot touches the floor during play.
2.10.01.14 as provided under the order of play (2.8.3).

I don't see where "no touching the ball inside the table" rule is, and I don't see the "it's okay to catch a ball over the table" rule. Edit: okay I see it, thanks.


Edited by popperlocker - 10/31/2012 at 11:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Shakehander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 11:59pm
I'm agreeing with you :)
I've seen this at all recent tourneys and quite a few past ones...you can see it on youtube...there is no loss of point if you catch it with racket or body.
 
heh...my apologizes i do that a lot Embarrassed *edit after posting*


Edited by The Shakehander - 11/01/2012 at 12:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2012 at 11:59pm
This may be over the top, but if there isn't an umpire present in a tournament match. To avoid any misunderstanding, we should bring our own cameras and put them on the side. Just in case something like this happens.

I believe:

2.10.01.04if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;


+

2.10.01.05if an opponent obstructs the ball;

= no touching the ball inside the table


Edited by popperlocker - 11/01/2012 at 12:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Shakehander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:06am

Everyone who competes should be aware of the rule...you can download the rules from the ITTF site in many languages and keep it in your bag. Highlight descrepancies for future matches with people who don't know the rules.

 
Camera is a good idea if you have to dispute the call. More importantly don't argue and especially DON'T let it break your focus...just make it known you disagree on the call and play on to win (hopefully)
I do believe some players will make these basement calls if they can upset your focus...don't fall for it and don't linger on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:08am
Put 2.10.01.03 and 2.10.01.04 together and you will come to the conclusion that catching the ball before it passes over the court is a point to the opponent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Shakehander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:13am
around 1:35/6
$#%^^$%$@#%&*&^%$@! doesn't want to embed Angry B$#@^$es
 


Edited by The Shakehander - 11/01/2012 at 12:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:13am
Just looked at the book again, 2.5.8 has a clear definition of "obstruct", that is to touch the ball while it is still over the table
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around 1:33-6

Edited by The Shakehander - 11/01/2012 at 12:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Shakehander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:20am
Originally posted by atv atv wrote:

Just looked at the book again, 2.5.8 has a clear definition of "obstruct", that is to touch the ball while it is still over the table
 
 
OP is asking about "past" the table, definite lost of point if still within the playing area.


Edited by The Shakehander - 11/01/2012 at 12:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 12:24am
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

I believe you loose the point if the ball is over the table or heading towards the table. So shot from the side - which may or may not hit the table cannot be caught - as it is travelling towards the table. 

The rules see seem to support this. 
2.10.01.04if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;

So if you ever get into a super sidespin rally, don't let the ball touch you, even if it's going out!!!

starting @ 00:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8odNpnYEJ0  

If one of the guy hit it really hard past the table and hit his opponent, the opponent would lose the point. LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 10:04am
Just to be safe, let the ball touches the ground :)
 
I played league volleyball and at one game, when the ball was clearly out of the court, I stepped outside of the court and caught the ball but the referee told me that I should let the ball dropped on the ground to be clear that it was out, and rewarded the point to the opponent team. 
 
I guess, for table tennis, you can catch the ball when it is under the table instead of on top of the table.
 
And to be honest, I don't know if any other sport can have lots of unclear things that can cause controversies as table tennis. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8odNpnYEJ0

00:40 .... If one of the guy hit it really hard past the table and hit his opponent, the opponent would lose the point. LOL


Not at all. You will gain nothing unless your opponent's body leans across (impends over) the table.
For more explanations look into the Rule 2.5.8 "A player obstructs the ball if....".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 10:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8odNpnYEJ0

00:40 .... If one of the guy hit it really hard past the table and hit his opponent, the opponent would lose the point. LOL


Not at all. You will gain nothing unless your opponent's body leans across (impends over) the table.
For more explanations look into the Rule 2.5.8 "A player obstructs the ball if....".

Could you argue from 2.10.01.04 that if the ball hasn't passed the end line, the point is not over? At 00:40, those shots pass the sidelines, but they don't pass the endlines. :)

2.10.01.04if the ball passes over his or her court or beyond his or her end line without touching his or her court, after being struck by an opponent;

Edit: Wait i think I understand now. Law 2.5.8 A player obstructs the ball if he, or anything he wears or carries, touches it in play when it is above or travelling towards theplaying surface, not having touched his courtsince last being struck by his opponent.

The only way the opponent loses from touching the ball, is if the ball is inside the table. Okay I got, thanks for the clarification.



Edited by popperlocker - 11/01/2012 at 11:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2012 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

Just to be safe, let the ball touches the ground :)
 
I played league volleyball and at one game, when the ball was clearly out of the court, I stepped outside of the court and caught the ball but the referee told me that I should let the ball dropped on the ground to be clear that it was out, and rewarded the point to the opponent team. 
 
I guess, for table tennis, you can catch the ball when it is under the table instead of on top of the table.
 
And to be honest, I don't know if any other sport can have lots of unclear things that can cause controversies as table tennis. 
 
FireHorse

Volleyball is a different game, you can choose to return the ball even it already passes the end line, so it was a foul of catching in your case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2012 at 10:13am
Originally posted by atv atv wrote:

Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:

Just to be safe, let the ball touches the ground :)
 
I played league volleyball and at one game, when the ball was clearly out of the court, I stepped outside of the court and caught the ball but the referee told me that I should let the ball dropped on the ground to be clear that it was out, and rewarded the point to the opponent team. 
 
I guess, for table tennis, you can catch the ball when it is under the table instead of on top of the table.
 
And to be honest, I don't know if any other sport can have lots of unclear things that can cause controversies as table tennis. 
 
FireHorse

Volleyball is a different game, you can choose to return the ball even it already passes the end line, so it was a foul of catching in your case.
Right!  Good point!  I guess since I had played pickup game so we always caught the ball when it was clearly out and then in the league, I didn't know that rule so it was a foul when I caught the ball.
 
Get back to table tennis, if it's very clear like that in my case for volleyball then we won't have controversies that we have now in table tennis.  I don't mean that other sports don't have controversies regarding rules violation or ambiguities, but in table tennis, there are more chances to create controversies. 
 
I'm not complaining about it though since I love table tennis.  Just hope that the rules will be clearer for everyone to enjoy the sport, not to create tension and anger when someone cheats and you can't do anything about it :)
 
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