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729 Battle (II) Tacky |
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eonblue 
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 Topic: 729 Battle (II) TackyPosted: 01/21/2015 at 12:04pm |
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Has anyone out there besides me tried this rubber? I’m not great at reviews but would like to hear others opinions on it. I’ve earned my highest USATT rating with it. I’ve used so many different rubbers of this type but this is what I keep coming back to lately. With all of the talk about hybrids and Big Dipper, I’m so surprised this one has been overlooked. I don’t know much but I do know that it’s FANTASTIC for my game. |
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Michael Maze ALC
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vanjr
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Posted: 01/21/2015 at 1:57pm |
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Where do you get it? Zeropong is not carrying it or other US vendors. I think eacheng is the only source. I bet that has some relationship to it being overlooked.
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AndySmith
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Posted: 01/21/2015 at 4:36pm |
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I was tempted, but didn't want to rotate the Big Dipper with anything else. Very happy with it.
Battle I (non-tacky) is excellent too. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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eonblue
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Posted: 01/21/2015 at 10:14pm |
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vanjr, I ordered the first six in 47 degree from fastpaddle but they're out and closing. I order three more from eacheng in 49 degree. I'm trying to order more 47. Hopefully US dealers will start stocking it.
AndySmith, you should give it a shot in 47. Maybe on a backup blade if you get bored. One more 20$ rubber can't hurt much but don't blame me if it doesn't fit you.
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Michael Maze ALC
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AndySmith
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 4:59am |
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I'll probably order some the next time I get something from eaching. I am interested, and a Battle I / II setup does have a beautiful cheapo symmetry to it...
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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vanjr
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 9:23am |
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My eacheng order has been sent (but for the non-tacky) along with a few more...
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eonblue
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 10:44am |
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I also have big dipper FH and battle 1 BH on my backup IF-ZLF. Battle 1 and Battle 2 are completely different, nothing like each other at all, not even the sponge. I haven't used the 1 much yet and it seems okay but I've used T05-FX so long on the BH it's hard to use anything else.
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Michael Maze ALC
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NextLevel
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 11:36am |
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eonblue,
Big Dipper was recommended by Tony (ZApenholder) in South Africa when he wrote his review on many forums - he is a Yinhe dealer and a very good player so that was how the popularity of that rubber grew - Yinhe wasn't even pushing it that hard.
Since you have used Big Dipper as well, can you answer the following questions?
1. What rubber did you leave to use 729 Battle II (tacky)?
2. How does your play with 729 Battle II compare to your play with that rubber?
3. What really changed about your game that you really like now with Battle II?
Thanks,
NL
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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eonblue
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 5:11pm |
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Hi NL, a. Prior to Battle II it was 729 Origin Nano for about a year. Other tournament rubbers in descending order going back to mid 2011 were Moon Pro, Grip-S Europe, Thors. b. Other FH rubbers I enjoy but have not used in rated tournaments are Big Dipper, Whale II (esp. the original black sponge), regular Grip-S, H3, H2, TG3, 729-08/es, XuShaofa 999-LSZ, HRT Wujilong c. A few I really don’t care for…SpinArt and Vega China.
Compared to Origin Nano I’m more consistent/in control, more dwell, slightly faster and higher throw, more serve spin. I liked Origin Nano because it lasted a long time and felt a lot like the original Whale II with the black sponge although A LOT slower. 3. What really changed about your game that you really like now with Battle II? Comfort, consistency, control. Got 3 of 7 games in a match with the 2000 player in my club which never happened before, took a game off a 2200+ player recently which never happened before either. I won’t go into a lengthy comparison between Battle II and Big Dipper but just a few personal things…I eventually had to admit to myself that Big Dipper was too fast for me on the loops, smashing was a bit difficult and I really missed the crazy spinny serves. Which all really hurts because there are some folks in my club I defeated easily with BD that I never did with BII. There are others I was losing to with BD that I rarely lost to with Battle II. It’s really a toss-up but in the end my wins/losses are in a tighter range with BII, likely because I’m not that good yet ha! On my blade BII is easier to use, more rounded and consistent. Don't get me wrong though, I will continue testing because it's fun to switch it up and I really enjoy both BII and BD! |
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Michael Maze ALC
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AndySmith
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 5:43pm |
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Great info, many thanks!!!
So, what hardness of BD did you use, and how did that compare to the hardness of the 47 Battle II? 47 sounds like a high number to me... |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 01/22/2015 at 6:08pm |
You see, I came to Big Dipper from Tenergy. And even then, it took me a month of occasional use during training to realize that Big Dipper was just what I needed given my desire to emphasize spin over speed with the new ball, even when driving. I thought it required a composite to make it fast enough, but I got the best out of it after switching to 7 ply wood. So I can see how the gain in speed on BD can be a negative for you, but the loss in speed on BD can be a positive for me. You also use a faster blade than I do.
If Zeropong or Cole gets this, I will definitely look into it. Doubt it will be fast enough for what I do, but I have been wrong before.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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eonblue
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Posted: 01/23/2015 at 11:56am |
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AndySmith, I used both 38 degree and 39 degree BD, ultimately I like the heaviest 38 I have the best. 47 does sound hard but for me it was comparable to 38 BD (a bit heavier though.) The 49 BII is quite hard and at one point I thought about switching to it but after a week or so it wasn't working out as expected, similar to what I felt with 38/39 BD. I'm not sure if there are others; 46,48,50 and so on. The 47 and 49 sponges are visually quite different. I mentioned 47 because I thought you had been using 38 BD.
NextLevel, thanks for the kind words. I try my best to play a pretty standard close to the table game or slightly mid. Loops, drive loops, smashes.
It's sounding like I'm the only one using it
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Michael Maze ALC
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Believer
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Posted: 01/23/2015 at 6:54pm |
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Guys,
Just had a session with Battle 2 the other night and I love it! I will prefer Battle2 than Big Dipper at this point. So here're my thoughts based off one session. Of course, I may need to hit with it more to make my final call. But the first impression is very positive. Also, I didn't tune this rubber. So the rubber plays very well off the package. Appearance and Observation: The rubber sponge is very dense. I bought mine from eBay sold by the same person who is dealing with Eacheng.net. I asked him about the hardness and he said it is 47.5 degree on Chinese rubber scale. When I press it, it feel like 40 degree H3. The rubber definitely comes pre-tuned because the oil is still on the rubber when I peal off the back cover. The way I noticed this is that when I put the Tear Mender glue on top, the glue just spread out on their own. So you know that the rubber still has oil on it. Yeah, I have to rub off my glue and re-glue it after I blow dry the rubber a bit. The rubber is also on the heavy side. Uncut weight is 68g. The surface is tacky for sure. But it is not crazy tacky like new H3. B2 can pick up the ball for just a split of a second. In this area, BD is more tackier than B2. I will say for tackiness, H3 > BD > B2. Drive shots: B2 is much easier to do the regular FH drive shots. It bounces very well and it has a very good dynamics to it. The feel is like H3 except it throws lower than H3. I don't get those hit into the net moment with it. ( I still have those moments with BD previously) There are a few times where I have to stretch out to save a ball, it bounces back reasonably well. Granted, you still need a bit of active hitting for any Chinese rubber. But B2 is very playable for regular drive shots. Overall, the speed is slightly slower than H3. So for speed: H3 > B2 > BD Loops: It spins very well and the trajectory is very nasty like H3 where the ball will dive. From the feedback of the players that I played with, they said that the spin is about the same as my tuned H3. But you do have to loop with the Chinese rubber angle, i.e. more towards the bottom side of the ball then the top of the ball. But when I loop it properly, the reward on a very nasty diving spinning ball is very satisfying. Spin: H3 = B2 = BD Loop to Loop off the table: Like any Chinese rubber, you can't just hit it, you have to swing it with some force. With that said, it definitely loops like H3 and the angle is very nice. I have no issue for the loop to loop. If you use to play with Euro/Jap rubber, then you will have to adjust by putting a bit more weight into the shot to be able to loop off the table. But that is the same for any Chinese rubber. But it is much more playable than any other Chinese rubbers. It feels just like a tuned H3 rubber, maybe a bit less speed toward the tail end of the shot. Off the table speed: H3 > B2 > BD Counter Loop over the table: This is pretty easy with B2. I can counter loop a top spin loop from my club mate with some degree of assurance. This is very similar to H3. But H3 does have a better kick to the counter loop area. But B2 is still very controllable. So I will say for the ease of counter loop: H3 > B2 > BD Blocking: I do have to adjust the angle a bit in the blocking area. This is particular true for blocking loop drive. The tolerance is tight and if you don't block it with the proper angle, the ball will pop. You also need to do a bit more active blocking like H3. However, it bounces similarly like H3 when you are doing passive blocking. Ease of Blocking: H3 > B2 > BD Serve: The rubber is not too bouncy and makes it a very nice rubber to serve. I can generate plenty of spin on serve like H3 and comfortable for serving long because the rubber is not too bouncy. To serve dead ball, due to the hard sponge, it does need a bit of touch to make the ball dead enough. But B2 is much easier than BD in this area. I do have trouble serving dead serve with BD. Service Return: This is one area that you need to be careful because of its tackiness. So it is sensitive of incoming spin and you need to be more active when you try to push short with your racket angle. But slow loop against serve is a breeze. And the spin is very high for this and the ball just dives. Pushes: Short pushes are dynamic enough where I can vary my spin. If I want to spin it more, the rubber respond quite well with my added force. For dead pushes, you will need to adjust the angle to make it a quality dead push, but it is very controllable. Flipping: I didn't do too much over the table flipping. But for the few that I did, they land with some quality. So I didn't need to adjust the strokes much. I am playing tuned H3 now. So it plays similar in this area. Conclusion: Overall, if you are playing H3 or any variants, you should try this rubber. The rubber is very playable off the package. The sponge is a bit harder than I like. But it is not too bad. I was surprised the most is that the rubber bounces livelier than any other Chinese rubbers that I have played with. IMHO, this rubber definitely can replace H3 if it lasts. I think that I had read somewhere on this forum that the rubber's spin may drop after a month or so. So perhaps once the tuning effect is gone, it will play terrible. But if I want to compare the rubbers off the package without tuning, B2 is definitely better than H3 and BD from my perspective. Edited by Believer - 01/23/2015 at 6:59pm |
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Believer
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Posted: 01/26/2015 at 6:13pm |
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I had another training session with a club mate and I think that I am definitely switching to this Battle 2 rubber. Now I just need to work on my foot work to make sure that I have a clean shot. The ball spin is just nasty if you hit it right. Love it still. Will report back perhaps in a few weeks to see if it plays badly once the tuning effect is gone.
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eonblue
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Posted: 01/27/2015 at 11:41am |
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Great review Believer and it's awesome to hear someone else is using it. Do you happen to know what hardness yours was actually marked with? I've only seen 47 and 49, not 47.5. Mine aren't marked on the cardboard insert where they should be but all the info was on a white sticker attached to the cellophane and on the sponge itself. 47 doesn't feel that hard to me but 49 is like a rock. I do notice a small loss of spin and the sponge getting softer after about 50 hours so I make sure to have a new one on before tournaments. I'm also noticing that the new balls make my top sheet look worse than usual.
I maybe should have started this thread back in September when I started using it.
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Michael Maze ALC
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mhnh007
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Posted: 01/27/2015 at 12:28pm |
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Sound like it's a decent rubber, similar to H3Neo commercial. If I am a regular H3Neo user, what would be an advantage for me to make the switch?
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Believer
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Posted: 01/28/2015 at 8:20am |
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@enoblue, the back of he rubber has a stamp that marks H47 T2xxxx. The stamp color is very light, so it is a bit hard to read the entire stamp characters. But the dealer is telling me that his is 47.5 degree. It should be 47 per the rubber's stamp. I would imagine that 49 will be too hard. Ideally, for this scale, I will prefer 45. But 47 is manageable. I have been playing with DF plastic balls and the XSF for testing. So far, after one week, the top sheet seem to be ok. I haven't started with my robot drill. I will find out more this weekend.
@mhnh007, the price currently is slightly cheaper than H3. I bought mine on eBay. The link is listed below: (I don't know this dealer and I am not working on any commission for him. But I did purchase a few rubbers from him and emailed him a few times for questions and he is very responsive for my emails.) If you don't tune H3, there may not be that big of a difference other than just to EJ  for the first few weeks at least. That's why I am still wanting to see how the performance will vary after a few weeks once the tuning effect has faded out for Battle 2. In the end of the day, this may come down a personal preference.However, from my view, B2 is much more easier to play out of the package than H3. I tuned my H3 when I play H3. So this save me at least the first round of tuning and I can play in a tournament without tuning. For those who may be playing with Xiom Tau, Thor, or any other tacky tensor rubbers, this rubber should be a good alternative.
Edited by Believer - 01/28/2015 at 8:43am |
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eonblue
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Posted: 02/11/2015 at 12:21pm |
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I've finally decided to stick with Battle II Tacky 47 degree on my forehand. I do like BD a lot still but with the new ball it's only compounding the deficiencies in my game. For the next couple months I’ll be testing Battle I non-tacky on my backhand to see if I can use it instead of T05FX to save myself some money. Hopefully I’m nearing the end of EJ road!! |
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Michael Maze ALC
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vanjr
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Posted: 02/12/2015 at 10:00am |
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I have a sheet of battle non-tacky and it is pretty nice. soft sponge. not too heavy. i think it could make a good BH rubber. i currently have it on my FH with a defensive blade. it is not particularly good at chopping however
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BH-Man
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Posted: 02/12/2015 at 1:30pm |
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Cole gave me a sample sheet of Assassin S on an order last year that is totally not tacky and I used it on a Clipper Clone I modified and I was impressed with its offensive prowess on loops and loop drives. Much more dynamic rubber than it first looked. That rubber totally rocked.
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Believer
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Posted: 02/17/2015 at 7:53am |
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I have ordered a sheet of Battle 2 Tacky 45 degree from the same dealer on eBay. It's in the mail somewhere....
Apparently, they do make 49, 47, and 45 degree. I had my first tournament with Battle 2 Tacky. The performance is well enough that I am sticking with it as well. But I am warming up with the 47 degree so far and it plays quite well after three weeks. The tuning effect may have diminished a bit. But it is still very playable. Will see how it works in the long run for its durability.
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eonblue
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Posted: 02/17/2015 at 11:10am |
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What blade are you using it on Believer? Awesome to hear it comes in 45 degree, I may try it to save a few grams but not for a while since I have three 47's already. Let us know how it plays compared to the 47.
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Michael Maze ALC
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Believer
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Posted: 02/18/2015 at 9:08am |
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The 47 degree B2 is used on Sword Blue Feather. It supposes to be Viscaria clone. But I am not sure it clones well. But it does play well. I have tried the rubber on Clipper CC and it is a bit slower than Sword Blue Feather. I haven't received the 45 degree version yet. Will update this thread when I have a chance to hit with it. I bought my Sword Blue Feather from this dealer in Hong Kong. I can't find a dealer in the US that sells this.
BTW, I have 3 47 degree new sheets as well.
But I will try the 45 degree once my March tournament is over.Edited by Believer - 02/18/2015 at 9:09am |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 10:16pm |
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Any updates on Battle 1 or 2? Mainly about it's durability over time
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BTY Viscaria: FH Black Battle II / BH Red 802-40 2.0mm
Galaxy W-6: FH: FH/BH Yinhe Big Dipper 38* |
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Toprank
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 10:32pm |
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My friend had a Battle II tacky on his blade. It's pretty tacky. More tacky than hybrid rubbers Big Dipper, BWII red sponge, Vega China or Tau.
It's more of a traditional Chinese Tacky rubber in my opinion. |
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CURRENT BLADE- Ross Leidy White Lightning
FH- Haifu Blue Whale II BH- Xiom Vega Europe |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 11:16pm |
How does he like it? Did you get a chance to try it? |
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BTY Viscaria: FH Black Battle II / BH Red 802-40 2.0mm
Galaxy W-6: FH: FH/BH Yinhe Big Dipper 38* |
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Believer
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Posted: 04/12/2015 at 2:44pm |
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Folks,
I was out for a while. I am still playing with the Battle 2 on the FH. In terms of durability, it is excellent. However, the tuning effects do wear out after 4 weeks. But I am playing with it still and it is only a tag slower and you can compensate with slightly more power stroke. So overall, it plays well still. And it is still the most playable Chinese rubber out of the package. |
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vanjr
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Posted: 04/12/2015 at 9:45pm |
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I put on a sheet this week and really like it. It is similar to big dipper, but actually may be a little easier with some shots. It is tackier than my sheets of BD.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/12/2015 at 9:53pm |
So off the table play is not energy consuming (which is why I like Big Dipper)?
Edited by NextLevel - 04/12/2015 at 9:54pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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vanjr
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Posted: 04/12/2015 at 10:14pm |
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I think Battle II (B2) is faster and easier to engage the sponge. BD may have a little lower throw angle. I do think BD can rip an underspin ball better and is a little more control oriented in the short game. They are similar enough that adjustment should not take long. Battle I is very different and would require a bigger adjustment to me. I could enjoy either B2 or BD just as well.
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eonblue wrote: