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Interested to see what you make of my style.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magritte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2008 at 9:52pm
I am a big fan of Juan King Carlo ever since I saw your serves video.

Now, I am even more of a fan. I love your style...the thinking man's game... delightful...filled with artful moves, spin skills, and wry deceptions with minimum pseudo-macho athletic struggles.

The power and speed game of the athletic youth bores me into a stupor...slam, slam, slam, loop, slam...

I would love to take lessons from you. I recently returned to the game after laying off since 1959. I'll be returning to study your style frequently.

Most of the guys who are into fitness don't have a style.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nutriment6464 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2008 at 9:54pm
nice, smooth play, and he's right, he has a job and all, I don't think at this moment his main goal is the world top 10, so nice job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2008 at 10:10pm
I never said he wasn't good. I actually think is quite good, but the point is, movement is very important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 77g33k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2008 at 10:23pm
It seems that you are generating your spins from your wrist. Is it really okay, I mean, doesn't it affect your consistency?My former coach usually scold me if I use wrist action for generating spins, he said it would be bad for consistency. I usually found my topspins more spinny if I use wrist power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2008 at 10:26pm
^ I think your coach is right when he said that. I would also imagine that ove time it could hurt your wrist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 12:02am
Originally posted by ttman ttman wrote:

sorry but he would smoke you lixiao, imho hes somewhere in the 21-2300 range
 
Sorry no offense at all but hes no where near that high. I don't know what 21-2300 level players youve seen, but there are great differences. I'd say more like 1700. 1800 MAX. Definitely not 2000.
 
Also, you have to admit lixiao isnt saying anything false. Fitness is indeed greatly important. And we do indeed pick things up from watching professionals. The error in his comment is that JKC had no need to move so much, whether he has the ability or not, and he was trying to keep a rally going. Which is where i get that "1800 max" from. He probably has an extra kick that doesn't show on that video.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sprite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 12:24am
^ I'm 1800 and I couldn't handle this guy, not even close.

It's funny that you think an 1800 max player could defeat a player in the top 15 in England.
YEO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 12:34am
He reminds me of Larry Bavly a.k.a. "heavyspin".  In my estimate he's playing about 2100 from the video, but can easily be 2200 to 2250 if he's serious and stay closer to the table.  He has great forehand and backhand spinny loops, great placement, good serves and returns, which are trademarks of a solid all-around player.  This observation is purely personal, from my experience of running and playing at least 300 Class A round robins in Los Angeles.  Just my 2 cent$.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sprite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 12:46am
I believe he is clearly better than Larry, no offense intended to you or Larry.
YEO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajchien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 12:50am
Yes, I think he is also around 2300. Maybe better. Very classic european type play. Off table, consistent, good placement, efficiency of footwork.
 
No way a US1800 player has that type of placement, distance control, and efficientcy of motion. An 1800 player can put together points like this in a highlight reel, but these are a lot of points that are played. Case in point: 3:35 and 4:16 - backhand counterloops dont come from 1800 players. Also, there were plenty of backhand opening 3rd ball outright winners - that dosent come from 1800 players. Check out the placement at 00:42.
 
I am a believer though that improvement would come with holding the table and being the aggressor more often. Too many times you may drop back into mid-distance, prematurely giving up control of the table. However, that would require a bigger investment in footwork and conditioning. Like me, you probabaly enjoy your steak more than needing to play at any higher level. ;)
 
PS. Nice racket sound. Whats popular over there: glue sound rubbers, tuning, or gluing?
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 1:01am
Originally posted by Juan King Carlo Juan King Carlo wrote:

I use a Galaxy T-4, with LKT Rapid Sound. It seems to be the best combination so far for me, I have never felt so happy with a bat.
 
Did you boost or tune the Rapid Sound, or is it straight out of the box?  What is the speed like compared to a popular mainstream rubber for example.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 1:57am
Its a good point about it not being a higlight real. I would give a higher rating thinking that. Thanks for the point. I still dont put him at 2200 usatt though. I dont know how he beat a top 15 professional player.. I'd like to see a video of that.
 
the 2300 player i know has a much better game that's all. He's from india, and may be heavily under rated. A lot of the players in my state are under rated. I know compared to people from california and what not of the same rating that Ive seen, He is much much better. So i make comparisons based on the people i know.
 
I like your game a lot. Its original. It seems effortless because of your superior placement and control of the table. Youre a big guy, and I'm a big guy so I just like you that much more because I relate to that lol.
 
I dont like what you said to Lixiao though. Calling him a dreamy noob who sits on his computer all day and laughing at his game that youve never seen isnt very necessary. Those kinds of comments should be below you. Knowing he's a teenager, you shouldnt be making him feel like crap just to make yourself feel better. You asked for criticism and you got it. He makes a valid point and theres no need to dismiss his opinions like that. Anyone can learn something from anyone. Be it a 14 year old beginner that sees something, or JO waldner. I know LX can be excessive sometimes, but this isnt the case here. He did nothing to provoke a condescending response like that.
 
But that aside, I want to see more videos of you in the future! See how you play a little more serious. Good stuff.
 
Thanks.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:00am
I tuned it slightly a few weeks back, but it made little difference to either speed spin or sound so I decided not to bother again. I think I would have to use more layers, but I don't want to upset the good control of the bat by speeding things up too much. I have some new rubbers to stick on in the next couple of days and I am not going to bother tuning those at all.
 
The rubber is quite slow compared to euro and jap rubbers, it goes well with the quick blade. There is plenty of control on the slower shots from the rubber, but the blade gives me enough speed when I hit hard.
 
I though you might have trouble agreeing on a rating for me as I tend to beat and lose to people with a wide range of abilities depending on how well they serve and receive serve, how well they keep it short, how well they control heavy spin, how well they get into position to play the shot and how well they hit the higher ball of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:01am
Originally posted by ajchien ajchien wrote:

Yes, I think he is also around 2300. Maybe better. Very classic european type play. Off table, consistent, good placement, efficiency of footwork.
 
No way a US1800 player has that type of placement, distance control, and efficientcy of motion. An 1800 player can put together points like this in a highlight reel, but these are a lot of points that are played. Case in point: 3:35 and 4:16 - backhand counterloops dont come from 1800 players. Also, there were plenty of backhand opening 3rd ball outright winners - that dosent come from 1800 players. Check out the placement at 00:42.
 
I am a believer though that improvement would come with holding the table and being the aggressor more often. Too many times you may drop back into mid-distance, prematurely giving up control of the table. However, that would require a bigger investment in footwork and conditioning. Like me, you probabaly enjoy your steak more than needing to play at any higher level. ;)
 
PS. Nice racket sound. Whats popular over there: glue sound rubbers, tuning, or gluing?
 
 
 
 
I dont know about the 1800s you play with.. but the ones I know are plenty capable of such things as backhand counter loops and 3rd ball BH winners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:02am
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

Its a good point about it not being a higlight real. I would give a higher rating thinking that. Thanks for the point. I still dont put him at 2200 usatt though. I dont know how he beat a top 15 professional player.. I'd like to see a video of that.
 
the 2300 player i know has a much better game that's all. He's from india, and may be heavily under rated. A lot of the players in my state are under rated. I know compared to people from california and what not of the same rating that Ive seen, He is much much better. So i make comparisons based on the people i know.
 
I like your game a lot. Its original. It seems effortless because of your superior placement and control of the table. Youre a big guy, and I'm a big guy so I just like you that much more because I relate to that lol.
 
I dont like what you said to Lixiao though. Calling him a dreamy noob who sits on his computer all day and laughing at his game that youve never seen isnt very necessary. Those kinds of comments should be below you. Knowing he's a teenager, you shouldnt be making him feel like crap just to make yourself feel better. You asked for criticism and you got it. He makes a valid point and theres no need to dismiss his opinions like that. Anyone can learn something from anyone. Be it a 14 year old beginner that sees something, or JO waldner. I know LX can be excessive sometimes, but this isnt the case here. He did nothing to provoke a condescending response like that.
 
But that aside, I want to see more videos of you in the future! See how you play a little more serious. Good stuff.
 
Thanks.
 
I didn't particularly like the way LiXiao launched in and attacked my fitness on the first post, so I didn't particularly feel like holding back. A moderator on any site should have a little more tact if he is to have the respect of its members. I am a moderator on another site, and I would certainly choose my words more carefully.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MildSeven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:11am
I agree with LiXiao. Everything is great except the foot work. In fact, in a lot of the shots the arms and upper body have clearly adapted to the lethargic lower body. Strong play though. No one is being mean spirited and making unfair comments, I think its pretty clear form the video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:16am

Good point, JKC. I guess if you hold a mod title then all the other factors just jump out.

I don't really think he attacked your fitness. But then again, i think he could have said it in a nicer way. When i first read what he said.. I cringed a little bit. Regardless though, it could have ended sooner, and the comments were still unnecessary, since you commented more on what he said afterwords when what he said was purely analytical comments that made sense than you did on his first post. But either way, its done and over with, and its all good.

Enjoyed the vid though, Can't wait to see more, JKC
 
thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajchien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:52am
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

 
I dont know about the 1800s you play with.. but the ones I know are plenty capable of such things as backhand counter loops and 3rd ball BH winners.
 
Well, we're both from California then. I must say i don't see 1800 players with effective BH counterloops. Landing a BH counterloop once or twice in a night of play (which I think an 1800 can do) is nothing like landing them with consistently and with placement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajchien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 2:57am
JKC, is this you too?
 
 
It looks like you're practicing against a frictionless no sponge LP here.
 
And this?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:01am
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

You need to really work on your fitness level, alot. YOu were barely moving at all.
 
I would call this an attack on my fitness level. Clearly a comment from someone who watched the first 10 seconds realized it wasn't a pro vid and turned it off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:02am
Originally posted by ajchien ajchien wrote:

JKC, is this you too?
 
 
It looks like you're practicing against a frictionless no sponge LP here.
 
And this?
 
 
 
I will have to tell you later, I can't access that at work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:12am
The main reason the vid is not continuous is the fact that my mate is very out of touch and out of sorts with his rubbers at the moment. It would be unfair of me when he has agreed to be in the vid to put up a catalogue of me serving him off or getting him to pop them up and generally exposing a (hopefully short term) weakness in his short game. There is also quite a bit of fetching of the ball as it is a big room.
Yes if I posted the whole 26 mins of footage, I do make a few mistakes which didn't make the final cut but the editing was in no way designed to show me in a better light, just to show the points which developed into rallies. Had the tape run for another 3 mins or so, there would have been a rally which might have made you all rate me a little higher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajchien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:19am
Originally posted by Juan King Carlo Juan King Carlo wrote:

Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

You need to really work on your fitness level, alot. YOu were barely moving at all.
 
I would call this an attack on my fitness level. Clearly a comment from someone who watched the first 10 seconds realized it wasn't a pro vid and turned it off.
 
I actually have no problems with JKC's footwork. I think he has a fairly strong BH which gives him a positional advantage over his opponent in mid-distance play (it's hard to cover the whole table with your FH in mid-distance!). In fact, on some high balls where he had enough time, JKC moved well enough to hit FH's from the BH corner. I dont think of it as "poor footwork". I think it's more "efficient use of footwork".
 
Certainly JKC is no Ma Lin when it comes to footwork. However, trying to do something you're not is likely not as effective as playing within your strengths.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:24am
Originally posted by ajchien ajchien wrote:

 
PS. Nice racket sound. Whats popular over there: glue sound rubbers, tuning, or gluing?
 
 
Glue sound rubbers are very popular, even though many don't practice enough to be able to control them properly. I refuse to pay the huge price for them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:30am

Very good play. Very nice to watch. You have such a nice hand, control and touch. I fancy your BH loop. If I may do some suggestion (I'm not even sure I could beat you...), you are moving back too quickly. You clearly have the tools to initiate game and put your opponent off limits soon. keep this advantage and stay closer to the table. If you come to France, let me know, I'd like to play with you. bring Fred too. He's famous on the french forum now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 3:49am
You must post me a link to the thread on the French Forum so I can have a look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 4:13am
Great work JKC! Although admittedly at first I thought "meh, I could do that" until I saw how consistent your placement was. I'm around 1800 but have no doubts you could blow me off the table.

Hmm, from that video I would say you have a style that doesn't look too great on a video but practical and is very solid (IMHO).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 6:59am
The better you get, the more you appreciate what is happening in vids. You start to spot the placement and the spin and when someone puts the ball in an awkward places for their opponent. No doubt, there are some complexities that I don't understand when watching the videos of pro players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote addoydude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2008 at 8:33am
3 things I noticed:

- practically no touch shots play
- most hits were taken as the ball is going down (after the top of the bounce)

did you edit out the touch shots, the short serves, or the early hits (as the ball is rising, or at top of the bounce)?



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