|
|
Ittf ball release |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 06/28/2013 at 12:12pm |
I just got this email. If its already been posted, please delete it for me.
On Friday, June 28, 2013, equipment ittf wrote: Message from the ITTF President to Manufacturers of ITTF Approved Equipment Dear Friends, This official message is to update you with regard to the plastic balls to eventually replace the celluloid balls. There are a couple of issues to explain, but in general all is on track and we do not see any problems in using the new plastic balls once they are approved for the established date of 1 July 2014 as planned. 1. Manufacturing 1.1 There is now the possibility of having two types of plastic balls: a) seamless; and b) with seam. 1.2 The seamless balls are being manufactured in a factory in Guangzhou, let's call it "Co.X", according to a new manufacturing process and a new technology with specially designed machines that can produce balls made of plastic composites and without seams. These balls have been tested extensively so far and they are of good quality, except that it is difficult to implement the "veer" test on these balls for lack of a point of reference (the seam). Instead, they will be tested for even distribution of the material all over the sphere of the ball. This is currently the weakness of these balls, the material is not sufficiently evenly distributed all around the sphere resulting in only 30% to 50% of the produced balls passing the ITTF ball tests. 1.3 There is supposedly an agreement in place between Co.X and DHS and DF. The agreement would state that Co.X only manufacturers the balls, while DHS and DF market and sell the balls wholesale. It is also claimed that it is DHS and DF that funded the research for the production of the seamless ball, which is a considerable investment. 1.4 There is now apparently a dispute between Co.X on one side and the other two companies, DHS and DF, on the other side. It would seem that all sides are claiming a breach of contract. This is not ITTF business and must be resolved between the companies. However, this dispute has changed the original plans. 1.5 Now, because of the dispute, DHS and DF have proceeded to produce their own plastic balls, using a different plastic composite material and using the traditional production technology of balls with seams. This is the same as celluloid balls, but using non-celluloid materials. 1.6 The result is that now we will have plastic balls submitted for approval by Co.X (seamless plastic balls) as well as from DHS and DF. Samples of the new "with seam" plastic balls were given out in Paris to players and others for testing and feedback. 1.7 Please note that neither the ITTF nor the manufacturers have any obligation to provide samples to anyone. The plastic balls are legal and have always been legal according to the ITTF rules. As long as the plastic balls pass the ITTF ball tests they can be used, even now, without any change in rules. It is the same procedure as if a new racket covering comes on the market. 1.8 The ITTF will use for ITTF events the plastic balls as of 1 July 2014. Other bodies (national associations, continental federations, leagues, clubs, etc.) can make their own decisions to use plastic or celluloid balls. 1.9 The celluloid balls will remain legal, and in use for those that want to use them, until their supply is depleted and are no longer available from the manufacturers 1.10 Initial sufficient supply of plastic balls will be available, according to the manufacturers, by the beginning of 2014, and full supply should be available by July 2014. 1.11 The strategy by the manufacturers, suppliers and resellers to sell off their stocks of celluloid balls is their own strategy and does not involve the ITTF. 2. Patent 2.1 There are three approved patents that we are aware of (maybe many more) with regard to the plastic balls. These three patents of which we are aware are distinctly different and owned by three different entities and do not affect the production of the plastic balls in any way. 2.2 Co.X owns a patent for the production of the seamless plastic balls using a specific technology and using specific non-celluloid materials. DHS and DF own a different patent for the production of non-celluloid balls with seams and the materials used are different than those used for the seamless balls. Therefore, there is no patent issue between Co. X and DHS and DF. 2.3 There is also a patent owned by two persons, of which one is related to Dr. Kuhn. I can confirm that the materials described in this patent are DIFFERENT than the materials used for the seamless ball (Co.X) and the materials used for the plastic balls with seams (DHS and DF). This is confirmed by all companies currently involved in the production of plastic balls. Therefore THERE IS NO PATENT ISSUE. 2.4 I urge all concerned, especially the distributors, NOT to create an issue where it does NOT exist. Do NOT meet with Dr. Kuhn. It is not necessary. And do NOT pay anything to Dr. Kuhn or his relatives or friends with regard to the patent. This is NOT necessary. The supply of balls from China is not affected by this patent. 2.5 In the unlikely scenario that the patent held by Dr. Kuhn's connections becomes relevant, then the ITTF will immediately step in to solve the problem. Until then, there is NO ISSUE. I hope that this message is clear and that now we can all concentrate on developing our sport and anticipate top quality plastic balls not only from China but from all over the world. Sincerely, Adham Sharara President INTERNATIONAL TABLE TENNIS FEDERATION President's Office a: 18 Louisa Street, Suite 180, Ottawa, ON Canada K1R 6Y6 t: +1 613 733 2468 | f: +1 613 733 4603 |
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
Sponsored Links | |
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Looks like anything goes for a while. The Wild West period if tt balls. Make them however you want with whatever, as long as they bounce right.
|
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
1.2 The seamless balls are being manufactured in a factory in Guangzhou, let's call it "Co.X", according to a new manufacturing process and a new technology with specially designed machines that can produce balls made of plastic composites and without seams. These balls have been tested extensively so far and they are of good quality, except that it is difficult to implement the "veer" test on these balls for lack of a point of reference (the seam). Instead, they will be tested for even distribution of the material all over the sphere of the ball. This is currently the weakness of these balls, the material is not sufficiently evenly distributed all around the sphere resulting in only 30% to 50% of the produced balls passing the ITTF ball tests.
|
|
JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I pray to god that national federation will say a loud Thank You But No to the plastic balls until they are really as good as celluloid ones. This is shaping up to be another one of ITTF-sponsored stupidities.
|
|
Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
|
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
+1, WTH is their thought process ?? this would make me quit the game. NOTE: it ain't broken!!
Edited by jt99sf - 06/28/2013 at 1:15pm |
|
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
|
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
My understanding is that a large percentage don't pass even now with celluloid, and they are then funneled to become training balls etc. so that figure may not be as far out as it would first seem. Obviously they're not happy with that qc, however. |
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
bonggoy
Super Member Joined: 11/18/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 475 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Remind me again, why is ITTF mandating a switch to plastic balls?
|
|
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Simple: Personal financial gain.
|
|
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
|
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Because celluloid is seen as a somewhat hazardous material. At least that's their claim. And also that over time plastic will be the more improvable product technology.
|
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
gatorling
Super Member Joined: 06/09/2010 Location: Florida, USA Status: Offline Points: 381 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It is silly to release the ball until all production issues have been resolved and all balls are consistent (whether it is seamed or seamless).
|
|
Forehand: Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 sponge
Backhand: Rakza 7 Max Blade: Xiom Aria |
|
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It is obvious they can't release the new balls soon enough to start selling new rubbers and paddles for them. |
|
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
|
igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
i'M SO HAPPY, NOW.....
ITTF just took the opportunity to eventually introduce a bigger ball into the game, thus getting rallies a bit slower, for the good of the sport. I am a tireless gospeller of a slower ball. It is utterly necessary that we have play more controllable. And now we can expect much longer rallies with the new DHS larger sphere of 40.3mm. At the long end, Adham Sharara did responsed to my many written submissions to change the ball in weight and size. He ultimately validated a larger ball, so wise of him. I am really happy now, after having been reported the two-halve ball by DHS would produce a sound much like the samples of celluloid material.., So happy, so delighted to hear such a good news.,,,, Bigger ball is a great benefit to the sport of table tennis. Yes. |
|
cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
He does have a point....sort of.
|
|
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
|
Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No doubt....all this delaying is causing anger and heavy frustration with the manufactures and developers that have put so much money and effort into getting a plastic ball in place. Sharara needs to move fast or he will have to hire more bodyguards. Edited by Rich215 - 06/28/2013 at 7:53pm |
|
|
|
j-bo
Super Member Joined: 03/23/2012 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 454 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the information.
It's a 3 ring circus out there. |
|
TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If ittf let both seam and seamless go ahead as long as they can pass the test then it will only cause confusion. What if one side train with seam and the other train with seamless decide which ball to use in a match? But in reality I think DHS/DF side will win out eventually simply because of their financial power to lower their price to celluloid level while the seamless side just can't compete adding their high rate of bad sample in production.
|
|
haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm glad you're happy, while most people are very annoyed and upset by all this. Just because you (and perhaps Adham) feel this is for the benefit of the sport, does not make it so. Did the change from 38mm to 40mm really have positive impact for our sport? If this is indeed the purpose of the new ball, why was the ITTF not open about it and discuss is publicly, instead of sneaking it in under some unsubstantiated theory that celluloid is dangerous and becoming rare, and plastic is the solution? Why not delay the change to the plastic ball until an acceptable alternative is found? Edited by haggisv - 06/28/2013 at 10:26pm |
|
bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Put the ballsize ("tolerance") back to where it should be and you'll see a lot less anger towards the ITF. Until then you can try put that oversize ball where it probably fits quite easily
|
|
Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Whilst Adham won't admit it; this new ball is all about increasing the ball size. Edited by Peter C - 06/29/2013 at 5:09am |
|
j-bo
Super Member Joined: 03/23/2012 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 454 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nah.. it's all about a financial windfall and kickbacks. A bigger ball will do nothing to make the sport "better" or "more popular". The ball was/is not what is holding the sport back. |
|
Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
j-bo
I agree with you that a bigger ball will do nothing to make the sport "better" or "more popular". Ironically; it's the kickbacks and financial windfall to the ITTF and the Manufacturers; that I was alluding to. As a result; the Manufacturers will be aiming to sell us "new blades and rubbers for the new polyball era"; to compensate for the changes the polyball will bring to the game. |
|
nachalnik
Super Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 240 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm not going to argue for or against a plastic ball. However, I'd like to bring your attention to the way ITTF and Sharara communicates using his "official message". Now, I'm not an attorney but even I know that there's no way the official memo should be using words like "supposedly" and "Do not meet with Dr. Kuhn". This is unprofessional to the n-th degree! This is really a Mickey Mouse club and not the organization that has any international recognition.
|
|
loop+loop
Super Member Joined: 09/17/2006 Status: Offline Points: 327 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I hope they keep the seamed version. Where the manufacturing process is the same, that should keep the price down.
|
|
Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
loop+loop
I'm of the same opinion as you; it makes more sense for the ITTF to authorise the seamed polyball for production. In my opinion; I think the ITTF should have delayed the authorisation of the seamless polyball; until the manufacturers could prove they can produce a seamless polyball, with a consistent bounce. Sadly that is not the case and the problem of the inconsistent bounce of the seamless polyball is clearly highlighted in the video's by bogeyhunter, on another thread. Sadly for the sport; they are more interested in expediency and financial gain, rather than providing a good product for the market. |
|
NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think there is a method to ITTF's madness on this push. Clearly they want a poly-ball and the most likely reason has to do with financial gain, whether by presumably slowing down the game, attracting a bigger audience and thereby additional revenues or by forcing players world wide to buy new blades/rubbers that may play better with the poly-ball. So why 2014 and not wait for a better seamless ball. They are under time pressure to allow some time for players to adapt before the next Singles World Championships in 2015 and the next Olympics in 2016. I'm presuming the World Team Championships will be before July 2014 so those will be played with the current celluloid ball. By authorizing both seamless and seamed poly-balls they are hedging their bet that at least 1 poly-ball will be consistently good enough (at least per the ITTF.) This gives the seamless ball more time to continue to improve past July 2014 if it is to survive market competition with the seamed poly-ball. If it does, we will have a seamless ball that could be better than a poly-ball with a seam. If it doesn't, the ITTF will have a seamed poly-ball in place without having to push back their July 2014 implementation date. The game won't be slowed down much for any length of time with the introduction of the poly-ball. ITTF already published a report where they were testing a 4.2 mm rubber. Why include a rubber that is thicker than currently legally allowed if they want to slow down the game? Players will learn to use more body and flat hit close at table to get speed into the game. Equipment manufacturers will introduce faster equipment to compensate for loss of speed from the ball. If the ITTF is serious about reducing speed, they should limit the speed of blades and rubbers as well, maybe legalize only all wood 3 ply blade construction or something like that.
|
|
igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
WHY IS THE SEAMLESS BALL SO SPRINGY. (my personal discovery).
As is now well known, in making the seamless balls a production process of "thermal rotational moulding" TRM would be used. Along the process, when heating the spherical mold, the melt of polymer substance as confined inside the mold will release some gases, thus causing an extra pressure inside the product (the ball's sphere). You can affectively visualize this extra pressure through holding a simple experiment. --Just put the seamless ball into a glass can of water (room t* water is reguired), and then prick through the ball's wall with the handy awl. You can see a big air bulb coming out of the ball. Very big. This is to show up how much extra pressure may the seamless balls contain in. Thus can we see an essential fact of reality that the seamless ball is a PRESSURIZED BALL anyway. Is not this a good reason for the ball being unduly springy ?? Yes, it is.... I guess. FOOT NOTE: Those people utterly displeased with the excessive ball bounce, don't use those balls formed in the TRM machine. All those are pressurized and thus overly bouncy. You had better try the DHS balls with normal bounce, with normal inner air pressure. Edited by igorponger - 06/29/2013 at 6:15pm |
|
garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ignore new plastic balls. TT is about feeling, not about equipment. We are developing feeling for years, just to allow some bad people to change rules to earn more money? Our years/decades spent for nothing? We are just idiots who spend more and more money on something that once was cheap?
Stop with this. Ignore new changes in any kind of equipment. |
|
Equipment database
Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
|
emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
maybe it is time to start playing tennis again...table tennis now feels like a dysfunctional sport...
the question then becomes: does this sport deserve the recognition and rewards of the other solid, unwavering sports... Edited by emihet - 06/29/2013 at 10:58pm |
|
Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades
|
|
NoFootwork
Silver Member Joined: 10/27/2006 Location: Dark side Status: Offline Points: 692 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The problem is that if your national association adopts the ITTF rules for balls (and all will if they want to have their representatives playing in ITTF events), then we as amateur players will also be forced to play with the poly-ball if we want to play in our National association sanctioned tournaments. That will trickle down to clubs. Players that want to play sanctioned tournaments will want to play with poly balls. Those that don't or will stop playing tournaments will stay with celluloid balls until that supply runs out. You will get 2 ball playing populations in a club and that will reduce the number of different players you may want to/can play against, depending on ball choice. Tournament entry form will need to specific which of the 3 balls will be used in the event. We will need to practice playing with all 3 or stop playing tournaments |
|
ChrisUK
Member Joined: 05/17/2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
What's actually more worrying is from reading the above, players could turn up at a league match and face:
- The current 40mm ball - The new seamless poly ball - The new poly ball but with seams Surely all three will play differently and I'd rather not face that situation. I think leagues will have to decide on one version and not allow a choice. Otherwise it's going to be a mess! Edited by ChrisUK - 07/01/2013 at 7:00am |
|
The Twiddler
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |