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Penhold grip improvement suggestions? |
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Whang 
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 Topic: Penhold grip improvement suggestions?Posted: 01/28/2013 at 11:26am |
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Okay, first of all I'm not sure if this thread should be in the Coaching section or the Pictures section..so forgive me if it's in the wrong place. Anyway, here's pictures of how I hold my racket for penhold. And yes, I do RPB when there's time to get into position, and TPB when reflex takes over due to a fast incoming attack where I don't have time to get into RPB position.
I'm fairly comfortable with how I hold my racket, but any tips you guys have to help improve?    |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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zeio
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 12:52pm |
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Try to straighten your thumb such that the fingertip sits flat on the blade and the rest of the finger run parallel along the side of the handle. That should open up the blade angle of your forehand and ease the transition to TPB during fast exchanges. Your current grip has the side of the handle crossing the thumb and index finger, which causes the entire paddle to be held in the palm at an obtuse angle. Ideally, the bottom of the handle should sit right between two fingers, so that the paddle aligns with the wrist. Once done, you should see your middle finger sitting right at the center-line of the blade with the ring and the little fingers serving as support.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
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rick_ys_ho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 1:33pm |
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Imago
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:10pm |
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Nice. Pictures of Xu Xin's grip available?
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rick_ys_ho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:16pm |
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ChichoFicho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:20pm |
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Your grip is very bad. On the front side it is acceptable but on the back side you should either stretch your fingers in such a way that they are close to each other or or curl them one upon the other with only the middle finger touching the racket.
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Rack
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:23pm |
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Your fingers are way too spread out in the back... middle/ring fingers should be together for support (CPEN doesn't fan out the fingers... you need to learn how to use the middle finger on the back to aid your shots which isn't possible with your fanned out grip). The grip you use is like a serving grip. Edited by Rack - 01/28/2013 at 3:29pm |
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Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)
FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H BH - Tenergy 64 2.1 |
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ChichoFicho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:29pm |
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If you use a chinese penhold blade, I recommend this grip :
 If you don't want to curl your fingers, then the proper grip is this:  |
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Darker Speed 70
Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
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Rack
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:36pm |
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If you're using both TPB and alot of RPB to loop and block... best to follow Xu Xin's grip.... it's the most flexible. Ma Lin's is the old school grip... Wang Hao's the best RPB only grip... Xu Xin's is the newer style one (same one I use also).
That grip in Chicho's first pic is horrible for CPEN... wouldn't touch that one. Edited by Rack - 01/28/2013 at 3:41pm |
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Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)
FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H BH - Tenergy 64 2.1 |
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Imago
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:39pm |
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Thank you. In the last 12 months, I seem to have evolved precisely to this grip.
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V-Griper
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:47pm |
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First you need to understand that the grip is not static. There is a fair amount of subtle paddle adjustment depending on the type of shot you are trying to hit. You will also need to experiment once you've got the basic grip down based on how big your hand is and how long your fingers are. There are solid reasons why the basic grip is the way it is and most high level players don't deviate to a large degree. Also you may want to consider minor paddle modifications in order to make your grip more comfortable such as sanding/rounding the edge of the blade where the side your index finger and thumb rest against the shoulder of the blade.
Basic grip as I understand it. I will describe it finger by finger starting with the thumb and ending with the pinky . FH side of the blade. Thumb- the length of the thumb is generally parallel with the blade handle. This is in contrast to yours which is bent at the second knuckle over the blade handle. Index finger should touch the thumb around the base of the fingernail. Function- Basically it is to press or pinch the paddle in opposition to the fingers on the BH side of the blade. Index Finger- the pad, area under the fingernail, should be curled and pressed against the bevel at the top of the blade handle. The bend at the second knuckle is generally placed at the edge/shoulder of the blade. With your grip the edge/shoulder of the blade is about halfway between the first and second knuckle. Gererally the tip of the finger should intersect the thumb at the base of fingernail. Function- this finger is the one primarily responsible for keeping the paddle from flying out of your hand when you swing it. The pressure against the blade bevel is used for this. The other function is, like the thumb, to apply pinch pressure in opposition to the fingers on the BH side of the blade. BH side of the blade. Middle Finger- This finger has a gentle curve with the tip of the finger touching the blade just above or on the the long axis of the blade(from tip of handle to center top of blade). It usually extends further than the ring finger and usually touches or stacks against the ring finger at the second knuckle. Function- This finger mainly stabilizes and supports the blade face and provides opposing force for the thumb and index finger. Ring Finger- This finger has a little more curvature than the middle finger and touches the blade on or slightly below the the long axis of the blade. It touches the middle finger and pinky at the second knuckle. It is usually even or slightly shorter than the middle finger. Function- Function is pretty much the same as the middle finger in that it provides opposing pressure for the thumb and index finger. However it also acts as pivot for blade angle adjustment. Pinky- This finger usually does not touch the blade but can during some shots. It is stacked against the ring finger at the second knukle. Function- Occasionally it touches the blade for support but for the most part it does not. In your grip the fingers on this side of the blade are spread too far apart. While it increases the support for your forehand it makes it difficult to make paddle angle adjustments. Grip tension and depth is determined by how far into the blade you push your thumb. Index and thumb meeting at base of fingernail vs meeting at the second knuckle. The reason you want to have your fingers closer together and positioned at the long axis of the blade, is that they act as a pivot point for adjusting the blade angle. If you are holding the paddle as if you are going to hit your forehand and apply pressure with your thumb, and release pressure with index finger, the blade pivots on your middle finger and “closes” the blade angle. If you release the thumb pressure and apply pressure with your index finger at the second knuckle(most leverage) the paddle angle “opens”. So the relationship between the fingers is important. Note: In some pictures you will see, the index finger is not curled against the handle bezel. Imo that is just a relaxed position for resting or sometimes for service, or tpb, but not the actual grip when swinging. A little experiment will show you that holding it that way will not work. Just look at slow mo of top players and you can easily see this. that is what the cork is for on Jpen blades. The differences in grip between Wang Hao and Ma lin are extremely minor but Xu Xin’s grip is very different on his rpb, so there is room for variation. He also has relatively long fingers. Sorry pics would not embed. However here are two vids. Wang Hao shows how he grips the blade at around 1:50. Maybe someone can translate. Ryu Sung Min. Notice how similar. Narration is in Japanese, RSM speaking in Korean obviously. Edited by V-Griper - 01/28/2013 at 4:07pm |
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rick_ys_ho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 3:53pm |
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Nothing is wrong with the grip in Chicho's first pic. This grip is good for FH fast attack (like SP), and traditional BH only style.
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ChichoFicho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 4:01pm |
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Strictly speaking, Xu Xin's grip is not good for amateur players with poor footwork. It limits your wrist flexibility and in this way you lose all the advantages of the cpen over the table. With such grip you need superb footwork because you have less margin for errors. You just don't have those angles which allow you with a movement of the wrist to hit the ball when you are out of position.
Edited by ChichoFicho - 01/28/2013 at 4:08pm |
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Rack
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 4:03pm |
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Exactly... David's not playing SP or Trad BH only. He's integrating RPB + TB so that grip would be horrible. You only change to that grip for TB... definitely don't keep it like that for FH's. Edited by Rack - 01/28/2013 at 4:16pm |
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Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)
FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H BH - Tenergy 64 2.1 |
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Rack
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 4:09pm |
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Xu Xin's grip doesn't impact wrist movement at all. The only major diff is that the fingers are more straight so the switch from TPB to RPB is much more easier... you can move your wrist just as much.
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Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)
FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H BH - Tenergy 64 2.1 |
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ChichoFicho
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 4:15pm |
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That's just not true. Xu Xin's grip limits your wrist movements. It is suitable for long strokes from mid distance but useless over the table. It is as close to the japanese/korean grip as you can get with a cpen. Good for long and powerful strokes but useless for touch shots over the table.
Edited by ChichoFicho - 01/28/2013 at 4:18pm |
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Darker Speed 70
Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
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Rack
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 4:23pm |
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Disagree.... anyone can easily test this but holding their blade in that grip vs the other grip... it works pretty much exactly the same. My wrist has full movement and 0 limitation difference from the other grips (ML and WH's with a little more curl on back).
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Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)
FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H BH - Tenergy 64 2.1 |
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Whang
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 8:06pm |
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I just realized now how horrible my thumb was in this picture! I think it was because I was focusing on holding the camera (don't want my phone to fall off now, do we? :P) more than my grip. Tried holding it again, then I realized that my thumb was indeed more parallel to the handle and not bent :)) This also affected the index finger. And yes, will try to focus on not spreading my fingers at the back. Thanks! |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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Whang
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 8:08pm |
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Thanks for the nice pictures rick! Will try which of the three will suit me more. Although yes, Ma Lin's grip is more oriented for TPB, and Wang Hao's grip is more oriented for the RPB. So I guess xu xin's is really somewhere in the middle. |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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Whang
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 8:12pm |
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[/QUOTE] Your fingers are way too spread out in the back... middle/ring fingers should be together for support (CPEN doesn't fan out the fingers... you need to learn how to use the middle finger on the back to aid your shots which isn't possible with your fanned out grip). The grip you use is like a serving grip. [/QUOTE]Thinking about it now, yes it is more of a serving grip. I guess that's because that's the first thing you do after you hold the racket. Lol. Anyway, I'll try to observe more my fingers next time I play. But yeah, i'll try to keep the fingers less spread out. Thanks! |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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Whang
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 8:15pm |
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I agree with that it's not static. I'm fairly sure how I hold the racket changes depending on which shots I make. I'll try to be more conscious of how I hold based on the different shots next time I play. Sorry for the thumb. It is HORRIBLE :)) I think I was too focused on holding the camera and less on the blade. Thank you for your in depth description and function of the fingers. I'll take note of them :) |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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Whang
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 8:19pm |
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I agree. Only in TB do my fingers go somewhat like this. Tried that before, but felt too unstable for my loops mid distance (which I do a lot) that's why I tried spreading them out a bit more (well, it worked to a degree..Lol). Edited by davidwhang - 01/28/2013 at 8:21pm |
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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shaolinTT
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Posted: 01/28/2013 at 9:11pm |
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This is a good video on grips:
Traditional CPen (one side): 6:20-7:00
CPen with RPB: 8:40-10:00
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Whang
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Posted: 02/01/2013 at 8:27am |
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Thanks for the vid!
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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Whang
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Posted: 04/14/2013 at 1:57pm |
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Ok so I've been working on my grip now and it's been like this for a couple of weeks, and yes, some strokes have become easier to do, and it feels stable for forehand, RPB, and TPB...what corrections should still be made though?
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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bayttplayer
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Posted: 04/14/2013 at 3:37pm |
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Thumb - Ok.
Index Finger - too close to thumb, suggest 1-2mm away the thumb. Middle Finger- should close to middle of paddle. Ring Finger - need to bend a little. |
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Innerforce-ZLC FL + H3 + T80
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dalamchops
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Posted: 04/14/2013 at 7:28pm |
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everything's ok except the index finger. No pressure's needed from the index finger, you mainly grip the blade with the thumb and middle finger. The index finger is to balance the pressure from the thumb
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shaolinTT
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Posted: 04/15/2013 at 12:56am |
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Whether this grip is OK depends on your style of BH. If you only do RPB or if you are RPB dominant, then this grip is probably fine. If you do quite a bit of TBH, then don't hold the bat too tightly. Leave more space between the thumb and index finger. Use the index finger to adjust the angle of the bat when doing TPH, with the thumb relaxed.
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decoi
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Posted: 04/15/2013 at 2:26am |
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pretty much what shaolin said.. if you are FH domindant your Bh fingers are fine position wise except the ring finger should really be pushing down on the rubber as well for that extra stability and firmness. that kinda distance would make it easier to feel the ball as well as to aim with when using FH , since you want to be making contact around that area where your fingers are, but then it will also depend on what feels best for you. but as above suits me better.
Bh fingers closer or past( involves curing somewhat) the middle line would suit some one who prefers to use Traditional BH. center of the blade if you want a bit of everything just my 2 cents
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FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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Imago
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Posted: 04/15/2013 at 2:50am |
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davidwhang wrote: