Sizing up new opponents
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Coaching & Tips
Forum Description: Learn more about TT from the experts. Feel free to share your knowledge & experience.
Moderator: yogi_bear
Assistant Moderators: APW46, smackman
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65404
Printed Date: 04/28/2024 at 4:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Sizing up new opponents
Posted By: 808ponger
Subject: Sizing up new opponents
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 1:13pm
|
Just curious to see what's everyone's process to uncover the weaknesses and strengths of players you have never met or seen before (without prior scouting)? ------------- BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M |
Replies:
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 1:17pm
========================== Did you mean "during the warm-up" before the real match starts? Interesting to see how to size up an opponent that you have never played before, during the "warm-up" before the match. ------------- skip3119 |
808ponger wrote:Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 1:22pm
|
Move the ball around and see if they move with their feet or just arm.....if they move just the arm ...easy (most cases people like pushblocker might not look good but tough to beat)...if they move the feet and hit with perfect balance....trouble! If you are able to try varying the spins - some people are great against top spin, but have problems with underspin or chops - so that another thing to test for.
------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
Posted By: tt4me
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 2:49pm
|
I find it hard or next to impossible to analyze people with just the warm up. The warm up doesn't give any indication of their serving ability or serve return ability. Since every point begins with these two actions I find knowing how the opponent does in these areas to be critical. Also, when warming up the ball is going at a slower pace and usually placed where one can hit it back. During play everything is different. TT is game of imposing your chaos on the opponent. One can't get a sense of that during warm up. Also, if I am playing with LPs I would probably warm up my BH using my inverted rubber. ------------- Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802 1.5mm, the Ball Whacker is revived!<br />Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802-40 1.8mm my back up<br />BCX5+H3+802-1 1.8mm New but promising.<br /> |
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 2:58pm
|
Good point - check the equipment. Will give a good idea about the style of play.
------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 3:21pm
|
Watching someone during warm up will tell you very little. All it tells you is if they can consistently keep the ball on the table when given an easy ball that doesn't require much movement. People don't move in warm up how they will in a match and if you can help it, they won't be given such an easy ball during the match. I've beaten a number of players that if you based their ability on their warm up, should have beaten me easily. Practice and match play are VERY different.
|
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 3:23pm
Yeah if they are built like Arnold S and play with Timo Boll Tricarbon with 1QXD max....Oh s***  ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 3:29pm
|
Besides the usual stuff that I suppose most people do, in the warm up, I check to see how they hold their blade -- their grip. Is it more BH or FH oriented? That tells me a bit about how close to the body their cross-over point is. If it is BH oriented (like ZJK or KLH) crossover will be a bit farther outside than someone with a more FH grip (in tennis they would call it a western grip). Whether or not this matters depends on how well they move, but if they are not super quick, it is nice to have in mind the most likely best place to attack the "middle". In other words, the "middle" is a different place for different players, and a lot depends on grip. I also try to get a sense of how quick they are on their feet. Also, does it look like they tend to keep more weight on one foot than another? Is there any indication they will have trouble moving to one side or another. Especially, do they have trouble moving to their forehand side? Obviously, there is a lot that will remain mysterious until the actual game begins and for some time into the match. Like several have said, warmup doesn't say a lot, but those are the two main things I look at. |
Posted By: Pondus
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 3:46pm
| I tend to simply look at how cool they dress. If they're wearing a CNT shirt I'm instantly shaking. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 4:31pm
    ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: puppy412
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 5:15pm
this speaks "2600 and up homie" to me..... us2746 when tired:  |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 03/03/2014 at 8:15pm
|
Sometimes the little knockaround before the match can tell you somethings... sometimes it won't tell you much. That first game is where the rubber meets the road and you discover what is going on, your chance to try stuff out if you want to risk some points now to earn more later.
Even with prior scout of a certain player or during the warmup... if you go brain dead during a match and stay dog determined to a certain way to play, you are be that other dog's dinner at the table. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: Olio
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 4:06am
|
Check their grip (FH / BH / neutral) Check their movement Check their stance (balanced?) Check their technique (very good / good / bad? Could they lift heavy underspin with a FH / BH topspin?) Check their bat (pimps ? twiddle for the BH warm up?) Check where they hit the ball (on the ball: behind / above) Check what distance you should be at in a rally (not always, but can be a good indication) While warming up (particularly when they topspin) vary the length of your blocks. How do they move forward / back? Then it's the small matter of playing a game with serves, returns and with different shots landing in irregular places. Piece of cake!
|
Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 4:36am
|
Do you guys really try to use the warm up to get information? I mean, seriously, I would be pissed if, during the warm up, my opponent started to hit to random areas to see how I move. The warm up should only be a simple fh-fh/bh-bh drill, thats it. If you havent seen them play before, then thats your problem to solve during the match, not the warm up. Checking grip, stance and equipment is different, no problems with that, but play the ball where you are supposed to. Ive only faced a few people who have tried to move the ball around, either to see how I move, or to get a taste of my anti before the match, but my solution to this is, I catch the ball and start over with the drill. If they ask polite, I do allow them to hit against the anti, Ive got nothing to hide with it, but it pisses me off when they are trying to catch me of guard during warm up. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: Olio
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 4:51am
|
The warm up is, by definition, for you to increase your body temp, get used to the conditions (table, opponent), and concentrate. But you can also observe... How they move, well, even in those drills the ball isn't always in the same place, is it... I wasn't talking about sending the ball on the other wing by mistake of by design. The few players who play everywhere for warm up are easier to analyse, and often play a completely different game when the match starts anyway. And they tend not to be the best players.
|
Posted By: regiz.rugenz
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 7:16am
+1 ------------- Regiz°ᆗ Rosewood_Carbon/Huricane_King °FH:Vega_Japan/T64FX °BH:OmegaV_Euro/Rasant °°°° |
Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 7:56am
Do you do that during warm up? 
That's a drill my coach does with me, but warm-up? ------------- OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: suds79
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 8:20am
+1 Yeah against people who warm up by playing like it's a point, honestly I will not even give a half effort if the ball is not hit in my genergfal direction. Warm up is meant to be the simple countrer driving we're all familiar with. If a player wants to try to read into that thinking I don't move, perfect, ;) I don't think you can really get much info from the player before the match starts. Should be scouting before the match. |
Posted By: Olio
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 8:42am
| . |
Posted By: Olio
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 8:42am
You took that question out of context. it followed one about their technique.
It was meant to ask: with the technique they're showing, how likely is it they will be able to lift heavy underspin (i.e. to what extent do they use their shoulder / elbow / wrist? where in the bounce do they hit the ball?) And yes, when you're warming up, vary the length of one block or two and see how they adapt... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 9:40am
|
You don't need to move someone around a lot to get some idea of how well they move and how balanced they are likely to be. |
Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 03/04/2014 at 10:52am
|
The reason reason I ask this is in the context of playing a tournament where you dont know anyone. I'd I imagine most players would keep their cards close to the chest during the warmup but now I see that you can t least start getting some info. I've read somewhere CNT Coach LGL mention that you find strengths/weaknesses through attacking and seeing how well the opponent handles things. Any specific things you guys like to do and how long does it take to finally get a good read on the other player? ------------- BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M |