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Backhand Ghost Serve

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Topic: Backhand Ghost Serve
Posted By: stiltt
Subject: Backhand Ghost Serve
Date Posted: 07/08/2021 at 5:16pm
Hello,

I developed that serve thinking about stabilizing it and it is possible. The back spin is insane due to the wrist snap speed that the regular lateral wrist movement can't achieve in a normal backhand serve.

How do you think it looks? 

Please don't comment on my weight, that was before 06/16/2016, I went vegan and lost 70lbs since!
 
http://boudour.com/mttn/backhandghostserve2/" rel="nofollow - https://boudour.com/mttn/backhandghostserve2/

http://boudour.com/mttn/backhandghostserve2/" rel="nofollow -


http://boudour.com/mttn/backhandghostserve2/" rel="nofollow -

Note: I was discouraged to keep investing time in that serve and I stopped pursuing it. I think I made a mistake because trying again, I controlled it again in much less time.


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Replies:
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/08/2021 at 6:52pm
Wow very nice feeling and contact! This is basically the reverse pendulum serve movement. Actually if you had such nice feeling in it, you can do it in your normal pivot FH pendulum serve stance, so now you can serve both pendulum and reverse pendulum from the same position, which is incredibly powerful weapon (Timo Boll being the best at this). And if you add no spin and sidetopspin/sidebackspin variants it'll become a highly versatile serve. 

I get lots of direct points from my reverse pendulum serve too (I use more of the Maharu Yoshimura movement because it's more deceptive), mainly because no one expects that amount of backspin from it (most ppl think it's more sidespinny for some reason). Also a lot of them are not so used to the pattern play coming from it - usually if I serve to my opponent's BH the receive goes right back to my BH where I can BH loop it very comfortably - the other amazing area to serve to is the FH short corner where the sidetopspin variant really comes into play coz it'll give you either a high ball to kill or they'll soft flick it to your FH which again can be looped back easily. Only very advanced players would be able to control it to give it to your BH or middle area - the FH receive against reverse pendulum serves is not so easy for shakehand players and is usually a relative weakness.



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Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/09/2021 at 3:48pm
Yes, a reverse pendulum facing the table is a great description! however here there is no need to get in position after the serve because we are already there which is the big plus in backhand serves but there is also the advantage of hiding better what spin we put on the ball because the wrist snap is so fast it is harder to perceive the difference between a contact on the bottom right of the ball with an up motion that creates massive side spin and the regular underspin like in the video.

It is only good for high spin low speed serves and therefore a lot is telegraphed to the receiver who can prepare for a short serve. That's the only inconvenient and it's a big one that may render the whole serve useless because it structurally gives too much info away.


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Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/09/2021 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Yes, a reverse pendulum facing the table is a great description! however here there is no need to get in position after the serve because we are already there which is the big plus in backhand serves but there is also the advantage of hiding better what spin we put on the ball because the wrist snap is so fast it is harder to perceive the difference between a contact on the bottom right of the ball with an up motion that creates massive side spin and the regular underspin like in the video.

It is only good for high spin low speed serves and therefore a lot is telegraphed to the receiver who can prepare for a short serve. That's the only inconvenient and it's a big one that may render the whole serve useless because it structurally gives too much info away.

Right now it's quite obvious what spin is on the ball.

The deception is always much greater in the pivot position because you can hide the backswing (it's legal) so there's less information going to the opponent. 

But yeah you'll have to move into position after the serve which is the disadvantage. However there's flexibility here too. Sometimes I don't even move after serving and just stay in the pivot position if I'm preparing to FH loop all the returns. 


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Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/10/2021 at 12:11am
yes, that was the beginning when I was focusing on the ghost only. Only later I played making the ball land on the right close to the net and get out of the table through the left side, sometimes through the 1/2 closer to the net.
I was never successful trying it in a match though, too much pressure and not enough practice. The movie above was an unedited selection with a series of not too bad ones but I am far to get it stable in match conditions. I am not sure it's worth the work to get there, I guess I am lazy and I am testing waters :) I am only attracted by the bh stance and the save of getting into position; also the originality of it to show off a bit of course.


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Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/11/2021 at 8:27am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

yes, that was the beginning when I was focusing on the ghost only. Only later I played making the ball land on the right close to the net and get out of the table through the left side, sometimes through the 1/2 closer to the net.
I was never successful trying it in a match though, too much pressure and not enough practice. The movie above was an unedited selection with a series of not too bad ones but I am far to get it stable in match conditions. I am not sure it's worth the work to get there, I guess I am lazy and I am testing waters :) I am only attracted by the bh stance and the save of getting into position; also the originality of it to show off a bit of course.

I think the ghost serve isn't that useful in a match because it's too obvious that it's backspin and it's slow, but it's super useful to develop feeling of brushing the ball, so I bet with this feeling you can serve sidetopspin and sideunderspin easily.... 


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Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 08/31/2021 at 12:43pm
With the same motion, side topspin can be applied and the action is so fast it will be hard to notice the difference at contact, just like a regular bh serve can go underspin and topspin when contacting before or after the apex.

I like that video a lot and it does a good job at teaching the bh serve. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqCJMuUoaPc" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqCJMuUoaPc

In the serve I promote above, a slight angle change where the head of the paddle falls down to the left and the handle tip points 15 degrees up to the right (right handed player) is enough to go from heavy underspin to heavy topspin because the contact will happen at the bottom right of the ball with a motion going up at contact time -->  that means topspin. The difference is barely noticeable so the surprise and fooling effect can be there.


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