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Pushing strategy |
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WeebleWobble 
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Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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 Topic: Pushing strategyPosted: 03/27/2016 at 1:58am |
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Ever since my basement pong days my goal when pushing has generally been to return the ball with a lot of backspin. But I'm noticing pros generally hit the ball pretty flat. I assume this is so that the other player can't use the backspin to add to their topspin?
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blahness
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Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 9:27am |
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Actually their strokes might not seem much, but they can produce immense amounts of backspin on their pushes. I know that to be true, because as a beginner I thought the same way as you did. But now my FH push also has a pretty short stroke but yet has probably 10x the spin compared to when I just started with a large stroke. The ball doesn't really care about how big your stroke is, it only cares about how much impulse you gave it. Pros have immense feeling for the ball to be able to time their wrist acceleration to generate tremendous amounts of spin from a very short stroke. Also they don't tend to push long balls which normally require longer strokes to control the ball better.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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suds79
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Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 3:02pm |
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I can attest to this as there's this old penholder, who was quite something back in the day, and whenever i first hit with him, I'm always amazed how it takes me a few errors to adjust as he can get me to push his pushes into the net. In short, hey can load up the spin.
I would classify his pushes as very short, quick and apparently ultra agressive and/or spiny. I think it's all about the amount of force upon impact... Doesn't have to be a big, long swing. I personally want to practice mixing in strong short pushes, with what i would call lifts (ie just getting under the ball, looks like a push but really isn't much of one) to vary the spin.
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benfb
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Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 5:24pm |
You should make a distinction between short, long, and super-short pushes. 1) A long push will go off of the table, meaning that it can be looped. The stronger your backspin, the harder it is to loop, but the more dangerous (spiny) that loop will be when it comes. Personally, I like it when someone gives me a long, heavy backspin push, because it allows me to really load up my loop. Conversely, a light backspin long push can be looped by almost everyone but their loops won't be nearly as strong. Especially with the new poly balls, a light backspin long serve can lead to a mediocre loop which is easily counter-attacked. At the higher amateur level, such as 1900-2100, they often vary between light and heavy backspin to throw off their opponent's expectations. The pros mainly use long pushes either as a surprise or when they can't do a good attack. In that case, the choice between light and heavy backspin depends upon their tactics and opponent. 2) For very short serves (within a few inches of the net), the choice of spin is based on deception, which the idea of getting a weak return. 3) For medium short serves (longer, but still double-bounce), the choice of spin should really be based on which makes it harder for your opponent to attack with a flip. I find that some people can consistently flip a no-spin or lightly-spun ball (especially with the new poly balls), so a heavy backspin can pick up some easy points for me when they slip into the net. However, more advanced players can use that heavy backspin to produce more powerful flips, so then I might use no-spin or lightly backspin. I know of at least a few pros who serve something like 75% top spin. They assume their opponent can attack any serve and they're looking for a way just to counter-attack.
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SmackDAT
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Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 6:23pm |
No, I don't agree with this statement, but you may have worded it badly.
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takethat
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 6:31pm |
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It looks like the pro's use pushing as a aggressive shot, club players usually dont. Pros always very deep, heavy backspin, very effective
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sharkcard
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mjamja
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 6:35pm |
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Watching pro's push (especially as returns of serve) can be very deceptive because often you have no clue what spin was actually on the serve. From some studying I have done (limited sampling) there are a lot more pure-spin serves being used than I originally thought. These are pushed with a more neutral blade angle (not so open) and the spin is generated with a quick more downward motion than against underspin. These 2 things can combine to make it look like they are pushing flat against underspin when they are pushing fairly spiny against sidespin. Every coach I have talked with about pushing has said I need to mix up the spin more. I just do not take naturally to doing that, but I am working on it. Mark
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blahness
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Posted: 03/27/2016 at 9:52pm |
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Just see at what happens when the pro's pushes hit the net and go over to the other side, most of the time actually bounce back immediately towards the net! Just from this you can see how much spin they actually impart on their pushes. I've seen Ma Lin doing short pushes that actually go back to the net (and it is not a shot that hits the net).
That said, they do push with no spin frequently to get easy popups to kill or to induce unforced errors from the opponent. That is why the short game looks "easy", but is in fact a game of tremendous skills in spin reading and spin variation. |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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WeebleWobble wrote: