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Heavy weight training and TT coexist?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2019 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

The real gain in weight comes from double stacking those all you can eat pancakes at IHOP.

Mark 
Good point - can't argue with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antonlan_Lan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 10:51am
A slightly of topic post maybe but hopefully of some interest. 

"Bragden" a swedish documentary focusing mainly on the national teams gold medal in 1989 world championship in Düsseldorf (it is actually 30 years ago today 4th of april) describes how the swedish training regiment changed during the 80s.

During world championship 1987 in New Delhi most of the team got sick. Appelgren was to sick to compete in the singels tournament but Waldner did and managed to get to the finals where he lost to Jiang Jialiang. The analysis after the tournament came to the conclusion that Waldner had been playing the best table tennis of his life, in no small part due to the fact that he had lost 9 kg during his illness and therefore where faster and could use his forehand more.

After worlds 87 the national team started more focused weight training to be able to be faster and more explosive. They couldn't plan stomach flue before every tournament after all Wink. Off course the documentary does not describe the training program but there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDinTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 2:17pm
So check out Ron "Bolo" Joseph - Professional Body Builder (at that time) and Personal Trainer doing some TT Training;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzv0upTasCw He starts at 3:51 mark until 5:01

Highest rating 2124, obviously he spend a ton of hours at the gym!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

So check out Ron "Bolo" Joseph - Professional Body Builder (at that time) and Personal Trainer doing some TT Training;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzv0upTasCw He starts at 3:51 mark until 5:01

Highest rating 2124, obviously he spend a ton of hours at the gym!
I never saw that one, thanks. This is my favorite Ron Joseph video from a while ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDinTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 3:03pm
Glad I only ever practiced with him! Hate to have my opponent take off his shirt and flex on me, if I did that someone would call the SPCA and claim there was a bear loose in the TT gym!

Do Ron and Renata ever play in your area? She was a SOLID player!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

Glad I only ever practiced with him! Hate to have my opponent take off his shirt and flex on me, if I did that someone would call the SPCA and claim there was a bear loose in the TT gym!

Do Ron and Renata ever play in your area? She was a SOLID player!
Yes, I'm friends with Ron and have seen Renata compete at several tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2019 at 10:08pm
Heavy weights are needed in tt provided you have an annual calendar of training divided into phases. Pre competition phase is the one with the highest amount of weight and lesser amount of reps but it is also the phase where it starts going down (weights) up until the competition phase wherein your weight used is only the weight of the racket. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2019 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

So check out Ron "Bolo" Joseph - Professional Body Builder (at that time) and Personal Trainer doing some TT Training;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzv0upTasCw He starts at 3:51 mark until 5:01

Highest rating 2124, obviously he spend a ton of hours at the gym!
I never saw that one, thanks. This is my favorite Ron Joseph video from a while ago.

Yesss!!! When I first saw this thread, I started thinking about the "Killerspin bodybuilder guy" but I couldn't remember his name.  Thank you both for the videos.  I like Ron but I take exception to his nickname Bolo.  There is only one Bolo and that's the guy from Enter the Dragon Smile

USATT lists him at 1407 in 1994 and he's currently 2067.  That progress is nothing to sneeze at! Regardless of his muscles or athleticism, you need to have good TT IQ at that rating range.  It's great that he's maintained his flexibility and range of motion with that bulk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 5:55am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

So check out Ron "Bolo" Joseph - Professional Body Builder (at that time) and Personal Trainer doing some TT Training;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzv0upTasCw He starts at 3:51 mark until 5:01

Highest rating 2124, obviously he spend a ton of hours at the gym!
I never saw that one, thanks. This is my favorite Ron Joseph video from a while ago.

Yesss!!! When I first saw this thread, I started thinking about the "Killerspin bodybuilder guy" but I couldn't remember his name.  Thank you both for the videos.  I like Ron but I take exception to his nickname Bolo.  There is only one Bolo and that's the guy from Enter the Dragon Smile

USATT lists him at 1407 in 1994 and he's currently 2067.  That progress is nothing to sneeze at! Regardless of his muscles or athleticism, you need to have good TT IQ at that rating range.  It's great that he's maintained his flexibility and range of motion with that bulk.

His FH looks so similar to the unstoppable Quadri Aruna FH hahaha...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lawson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 6:20am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJqYv_SFxzE

Min.34:20

I also read in Gatien's book that weight training is important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legolas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/05/2021 at 3:05pm
Well, I am not a specialist, but my friend is a professional taekwondo fighter, and I asked her about what is allowed and what not. She told me that they have a nutrition coach who takes care of their food before the competitions and also the trainer who keeps up with their body state. They are not allowed to go to gym or something, because extra mass would take away from their mobility and strength. Also, gym trainings require a lot of resting and tendons become not so flexible, which affect their sport abilities a lot!! So, everything is a bit more complicated. It depends from sport type to type, but anyway.


Edited by Legolas - 03/05/2021 at 3:15pm
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Originally posted by Antonlan_Lan Antonlan_Lan wrote:

there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 


i have yet to see a compound lift video by a top pro that really blows me away. they all appear to be doing low weight high reps. However there are some pros (not in the top 20) that do have really nice bodies (although they don't post training videos)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2021 at 5:24am
Originally posted by edgesandnets edgesandnets wrote:

Originally posted by Antonlan_Lan Antonlan_Lan wrote:

there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 


i have yet to see a compound lift video by a top pro that really blows me away. they all appear to be doing low weight high reps. However there are some pros (not in the top 20) that do have really nice bodies (although they don't post training videos)

Same here, though I'm working to change that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2021 at 6:14am
Originally posted by edgesandnets edgesandnets wrote:

Originally posted by Antonlan_Lan Antonlan_Lan wrote:

there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 


i have yet to see a compound lift video by a top pro that really blows me away. they all appear to be doing low weight high reps. However there are some pros (not in the top 20) that do have really nice bodies (although they don't post training videos)
the only two lifts where there is a change of being I pressed would be deadlifts and squats. Overhead pressing pulling and benching heavy weight is not necessary for TT, so these lifts go out the window. Andrej Garcina might have some heavy squats judging for his leg size. Don’t know about zjk, only seen him with light weights. Guess he just has very good leg genetics. I also think the body TT players are too focused on TT performance, making it very unlikely to have heavy compound lifts. They generally have strong legs and core, but the upper body lacks behind. Thinking about how ZJK looked like without a shirt in Rotterdam, I can’t imagine him squatting 400+ pounds. His upper body is not build to hold that load.

Edited by Tt Gold - 03/06/2021 at 6:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2021 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by edgesandnets edgesandnets wrote:

Originally posted by Antonlan_Lan Antonlan_Lan wrote:

there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 


i have yet to see a compound lift video by a top pro that really blows me away. they all appear to be doing low weight high reps. However there are some pros (not in the top 20) that do have really nice bodies (although they don't post training videos)
the only two lifts where there is a change of being I pressed would be deadlifts and squats. Overhead pressing pulling and benching heavy weight is not necessary for TT, so these lifts go out the window. Andrej Garcina might have some heavy squats judging for his leg size. Don’t know about zjk, only seen him with light weights. Guess he just has very good leg genetics. I also think the body TT players are too focused on TT performance, making it very unlikely to have heavy compound lifts. They generally have strong legs and core, but the upper body lacks behind. Thinking about how ZJK looked like without a shirt in Rotterdam, I can’t imagine him squatting 400+ pounds. His upper body is not build to hold that load.


Obviously nobody is going to be participating in powerlifting meets anytime soon, but NBA point guards often weigh ~200 and can deadlift 400, which I could possibly see ZJK doing. However, Dima and his lunges with 20 pound dumbbells (not to pick on him, but I feel like I've seen videos of him doing this and his body doesn't look that strong to me) is almost certainly not able to lift heavy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2021 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by edgesandnets edgesandnets wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by edgesandnets edgesandnets wrote:

Originally posted by Antonlan_Lan Antonlan_Lan wrote:

there is an interview from 87 or 88 where waldner is seen squating 50 kg and stating that the plan is to be able to squat the double within 6 months which isn't very impressive but at least tells us that they did weight training with the aim of getting (much) stronger.

For those interested - the documentary is avaliable on youtube with english subs. 


i have yet to see a compound lift video by a top pro that really blows me away. they all appear to be doing low weight high reps. However there are some pros (not in the top 20) that do have really nice bodies (although they don't post training videos)
the only two lifts where there is a change of being I pressed would be deadlifts and squats. Overhead pressing pulling and benching heavy weight is not necessary for TT, so these lifts go out the window. Andrej Garcina might have some heavy squats judging for his leg size. Don’t know about zjk, only seen him with light weights. Guess he just has very good leg genetics. I also think the body TT players are too focused on TT performance, making it very unlikely to have heavy compound lifts. They generally have strong legs and core, but the upper body lacks behind. Thinking about how ZJK looked like without a shirt in Rotterdam, I can’t imagine him squatting 400+ pounds. His upper body is not build to hold that load.


Obviously nobody is going to be participating in powerlifting meets anytime soon, but NBA point guards often weigh ~200 and can deadlift 400, which I could possibly see ZJK doing. However, Dima and his lunges with 20 pound dumbbells (not to pick on him, but I feel like I've seen videos of him doing this and his body doesn't look that strong to me) is almost certainly not able to lift heavy.
I agree. Guess a lot of pros don’t think the risk reward ratio is good enough to lift very heavy. If I remember correctly, Patrik Franziska once said that he had less injuries when he quit lifting heavy and instead started focusing on better mobility and higher reps with less weight. 

Zjk and explosive tt Players might have an advantage because their style is heavily dependent on strong legs, but Zjk doesn’t weigh close to 200 pounds (154 according to google). Generally TT players just have a weird built for weightlifting. There are so many muscle imbalances from training specifically for TT. Strong and big legs (at least some Europeans and a lot of Chinese), strong stable core, imbalances between the right and left body half when it comes to arms and the back, and also very tight muscles around the pectoral area.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 6:21pm
Wang Liqin was incredibly strong from what I read, which is why he stayed relatively injury free (along with very good biomechanics).
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