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rating guess again

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:


so really this is still the level for primorac + mark v ....  just put the ball on the table.
if you want longer rallies it starts at 2350 or 2400 really
I disagree with he idea that the rally’s get longer the higher the level goes. A lot depends on the players style. When one player is a good service/receive player, the match is bound to have few longer rallies. Then you have players that are good at blocking, or players that just don’t have the last bit of power in their to to win in 1-3 shots, which they make up for with being able to play more  lower quality shots on the table. The higher you go up in levels, the higher the quality of shots, tactics etc. gets. Higher level players also have problems returning serves, just as lower level players do. It’s always the same thing. I feel you had problems with serves of players that were around 1800 and you improved and encounter less and less difficulties when returning their serves, it’ll show in you rating. But then you’re playing against 2000 level players. Yes your return game got better, but their service has more quality, which starts the same circle again. 

Precisely, and this is why shot quality (serve, receive, loop) is so important in terms of measuring playing level. 

how would you compare the serve and receive in the OPs video to that in the match between the two 2400 juniors posted earlier on this thread? 



Comparable and in some instances even more advanced. For eg the side-under chiquita that the penholder did is such a disgusting shot...it even drew some oohhs and aahs from the audience lol...it's not your normal chiquita which even I can do...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 9:10pm
I'm readjusting my estimate down by 50+ points because I thought it was the whole match. But you're right. It's only a highlights video. That said, they showed over 50% of the points it seems. So yeah, take 50+ points, possibly even 100 from what I said earlier :)

I still think they are 2200+ though. But maybe not 2400+ anymore. between 2200-2350. It's a large range, but we aren't given so much to go off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 11:43pm
I spoke to someone tonight from China about the Chinese rating system.  It sounds even more confusing than the US system.  He said that 1800 in China roughly correlates to 2100 in the USA.  However, he said that a 2400 player in China is about the same as a 2400 player in the USA.  What does this all mean? I am not sure, but if I get the chance I will ask more Chinese players about it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 1:53am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I'm readjusting my estimate down by 50+ points because I thought it was the whole match. But you're right. It's only a highlights video. That said, they showed over 50% of the points it seems. So yeah, take 50+ points, possibly even 100 from what I said earlier :)

I still think they are 2200+ though. But maybe not 2400+ anymore. between 2200-2350. It's a large range, but we aren't given so much to go off.
Very fair assessment. I also watched it again and i would adjust my estimate to 2200-2300. Still think they are too one dimensional to be 2400. 
Some of you guys only look at the attacking shot quality, but table tennis is so much more than just attacking shot quality. If it’s all about the quality of attacking shot and looking spectacular, Kanak Jha wouldn’t even get to top 200 world ranking. He gets to top 30 with his consistency, soft touch, blocking, wise shot selection, etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 4:14am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

I'm readjusting my estimate down by 50+ points because I thought it was the whole match. But you're right. It's only a highlights video. That said, they showed over 50% of the points it seems. So yeah, take 50+ points, possibly even 100 from what I said earlier :)

I still think they are 2200+ though. But maybe not 2400+ anymore. between 2200-2350. It's a large range, but we aren't given so much to go off.
Very fair assessment. I also watched it again and i would adjust my estimate to 2200-2300. Still think they are too one dimensional to be 2400. 
Some of you guys only look at the attacking shot quality, but table tennis is so much more than just attacking shot quality. If it’s all about the quality of attacking shot and looking spectacular, Kanak Jha wouldn’t even get to top 200 world ranking. He gets to top 30 with his consistency, soft touch, blocking, wise shot selection, etc. 

Honestly I thought it was the full match too, if it's not then I would agree with mickd too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 6:51am
one interesting point is the chinese after the initial spiny loop will always counterloop with fh if they can.
the us players even up to 2500 all have the habit that when one of them loops the other one just blocks (even if the ball goes to their fh).

the habit of counterlooping everything is an advanced technique used by pros and could put the chinese around 2450 !!!


Edited by astaroyd - 12/07/2020 at 6:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

I spoke to someone tonight from China about the Chinese rating system.  It sounds even more confusing than the US system.  He said that 1800 in China roughly correlates to 2100 in the USA.  However, he said that a 2400 player in China is about the same as a 2400 player in the USA.  What does this all mean? I am not sure, but if I get the chance I will ask more Chinese players about it. 
the reason is that there is much more competition and way more players in that skill range (18-2300) in China. if they are in the 1900s, seems like 2100-2200 is in fact the reasonable estimate.


Edited by idk - 02/10/2021 at 12:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 9:29am
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

one interesting point is the chinese after the initial spiny loop will always counterloop with fh if they can.
the us players even up to 2500 all have the habit that when one of them loops the other one just blocks (even if the ball goes to their fh).

the habit of counterlooping everything is an advanced technique used by pros and could put the chinese around 2450 !!!

and for the players in the video, they can't do it with any consistency at all, even though they try, and that is the reason they are not 2450
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 10:04am
The footwork just isn't there to be tickling 2500. They're too off-balance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 10:54am
I don´t understand much about the numbers of these ratings.
If we pick a world and olympic champion, like Ma Long or Zhang Jike, how much would be their ratings?
Is there a maximum number to reach?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 10:57am
in the US nobody gets over 2700's because there's nobody to beat over 2700.  But if the best domestic players are around that rating, the top pros are probably over 3000.  

that's what I've always read as the "pat" answer to this question


Edited by cole_ely - 12/07/2020 at 10:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 12:44pm
how many US2400 players are there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

how many US2400 players are there?
Nice question :) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

how many US2400 players are there?

quite a large handful now, though i thought you would know that based on how youve commented in this thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

how many US2400 players are there?

quite a large handful now, though i thought you would know that based on how youve commented in this thread

159 from 320 million.
that's 0,000049% of the us population

easier to spot an alien LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2020 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by astaroyd astaroyd wrote:

how many US2400 players are there?

quite a large handful now, though i thought you would know that based on how youve commented in this thread

159 from 320 million.
that's 0,000049% of the us population

easier to spot an alien LOL

159 is not including people who's ratings have expired or are not USATT members. that is a large chunk of players. things you would know if you actually had a clue about USATT.


Edited by idk - 12/07/2020 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote astaroyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2020 at 9:49pm
check at 1:50
check at 3:18



the us players seem to be more regular in the bh.
in fh both videos look similar.

also I think at this level the us guys are already taking it pretty seriously.
training a lot.
that's why they are more regular.

the chinese are definitely not high level in china... so chances are they are just hobby players without too much serious training.
that could explain some of their mistakes which are pretty basic.


Edited by astaroyd - 12/10/2020 at 10:17pm
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