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Single Ply hinoki blades |
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guni4you
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2019 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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Posted: 02/03/2020 at 8:50pm |
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Hi,
Can someone please make a comparison between these two blades. I have pasted the links below. https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-speed-90-hinoki-9mm https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/darker-imperial-hinoki-2020-9mm Moreover what are the characteristics of single ply hinoki blades? Please let me know. Thanks. |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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There is that thread for you, it's old but I am confident everything in it is still valid.
also: Edited by stiltt - 02/03/2020 at 9:34pm |
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guni4you
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2019 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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Thanks. But you have any idea why is there any so much difference in price between the two different blades that i posted the links about. Both are made by darker and both are 9 mm 1 ply hinoki blades.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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marketing has something to do with it but it could be a tree older than the normal ones they generally use, where the grain might be smaller making the wood more valuable.
ps: I added links in my 1st answer.
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DarkerMyLove
Super Member Joined: 08/23/2016 Location: taiwan Status: Offline Points: 167 |
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The way it is described the Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 is more 'rare' and perhaps has 'tighter grains' compared to the Speed 90. I believe tighter grains might be a reflection of the wood being older.
Rarity has its cost and you can see that with Black tag Viscarias, fishscale grain, ST handle 90g+ viscarias or even the W968 DHS
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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With Hinoki more dense grains are associated with more power. It's not exactly true since their are many other factors. So what you are really paying for is appearance to a certain degree. No different if you buy a Les Paul guitar with a standard top vs something with a flame or quilted top. You will pay many hundred or thousands of dollars for the appearance but it might not sound or play any better.
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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
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guni4you
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2019 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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Have you ever played with 1 ply hinoki blade? I have heard that the feeling is the best.But they break easily and are very thick. Any experiences please share?
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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Both are good for re-creational TT. Unless you are flat hitter, you want something more flexible for serious competition.
Comparing two of them - version 2020 sample which is on the picture does not look like it worth any more than "older" one. Lines are not evenly distributed, "eye" is not in the centre. It's just regular Darker blade. Will play faster than Nittaku Miyabi (due to thickness, and density) but that's about it. If there are any differences in play properties between these two blades it will have absolutely no impact on your play. If they were of the same weight then I am not sure whether you would be able to tell them apart. You might, but not because of some differences in these models, simply because there are not two identical blades, especially 1ply. Yet another collectible.
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I´ve played with Speed 90 FL for a while. It will not break unless drop it on the floor. Small hits in the table will not break the blade. Mine had some blued edges because I often hit the table and nothing happened to the blade. The word can describe best playing with it is fun. It´s a pleasure looping with soft tension rubbers. Touch is not comparable to any other blade material. It´s stiff, very soft and fast. But the reason I stopped playing with it is the playability. The blade is already thick and when I glued 2 max rubbers it became a super thick setup. It reduces the agility to change from BH to FH and the overall handling capacity. Other than that I found harder rubbers didn´t match the blade. I´ve tried T05, Hexer HD and even H3 Neo and didn´t like the result. |
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hleett
Silver Member Joined: 04/13/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Here is a China shopping site which sells HIGH price 600 year old Royal Darker single ply blades. I don't they play any better than my fish scale ds90 though.
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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The 40+ elephant ball's made single ply hinoki blades obsolete.
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Darker Speed 70
Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
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hleett
Silver Member Joined: 04/13/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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I respectfully disagree! How is it obsolete while Darker and other manufacturers are still making it? You need to try one to appreciate one.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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Which ones does he own? I bet a KTS red label is one among them.
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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I don't think there is a high end Hinoki blade I haven't tried. I have never had one break but the grain does run in one direction so it is possible(but rare)to split a blade. I have also heard of players just glueing them back together. You can also break a multi ply blade so.....take it with a grain of salt. They have a unique feel cause Hinoki is soft and stiff at the same time and once you get over 9mm are very very fast. If you want to try one start off with a Miyabi or something from coach tony
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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I confirm that a 1-ply hinoki blade that breaks in 2 pieces can be glued back with gorilla wood glue and we will NOT feel a difference in play after the repair. We won't even SEE the repair if a good sanding job is done after the gluing. It's kind of amazing. The tricky part is to apply pressure sideways against the edges but with the right clamp it will work great. This is the best for the task I think.
jpenmaster means the Taiwanese "I love ping-pong" store when he mentions coach Tony. I bought many times from them and their pre-sale communication is awesome and almost instant when we take into account the time difference.
Edited by stiltt - 02/04/2020 at 7:51pm |
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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I had similarly good experience. Wanted to try so called yellow cypress blade. I love ping pong did great job. Concluded that when it comes to hinoki material it must be Kiso, others are different.
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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Your blade is now worth a lot more than you probably thought. But seriously, Users of these blades never sell a good one.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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I have the first blade, the cheaper one, in my collection. In my opinion, this blade is clearly different from the traditional DS90. It is larger for one. The more expensive,Darker Imperial Hinoki 2020 (9mm, (I think) appears to be fashioned off the traditional version. I think you should buy this version. If you don't like it, I will take it off your hands discounted 20% discount off what you you paid.. .........OK, you drive a hard bargain, 10%. |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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hleett
Silver Member Joined: 04/13/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Anyone ever notice the edges on the Imperial model is not shaped at a unique curve like the ds90? But then again no other blade in the world has this beautifully curved edge.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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Yes, maybe it's only aesthetics but at that price I would want the full eye on the edges. I wonder what kind of player would spend that much money in a 1-ply hinoki and not wanting that eye or not being aware of it.
Here is an example from Kevin a.k.a American hinoki. |
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wappak
Member Joined: 05/05/2019 Location: rising sun Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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i also have 1 ply cpen from coach tony of i love pingpong, its a taiwan yellow cypress hinoki 8mm, it feels harder than kiso and darker in color, they price this yellow cypress hinoki higher than their kiso, the thickness of the blade is thinner at 8mm because its harder maybe thats why their kiso are thicker at 9mm up, you can email coach tony, not all his hinoki blade are listed at their website, last time i got an email from him, he has beautiful 1 ply kiso at 9.5mm, that was a few months ago.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Online Points: 1020 |
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I bought an Apolonia from a French guy on matostt and he told me he has 3 so I had those exact thoughts. I was right to go for it because the packaging, instant shipping 5 days delivery and the blade was as good as the other 3 I had tested from a few club mates. In this case I decided I would go with the weight I like and Butterfly quality control and I was not deceived. I think I would go the same way buying from Darker.
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hleett
Silver Member Joined: 04/13/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Thank you. I did received high offers for my blade.
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yylik
Super Member Joined: 04/30/2011 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Anyone notice that Imperial Hinoki 2020 is not available in Japan market? I can't find in Iruru or other Japanese online store.
I have few darker speed 90s, one from China and others from Japan. The one from China has a "different" feel from the rest. There is a possibility of fake product, or I just got a lemon. Incidentally, my friend shared the same thoughts (both of us bought from the same China seller). Just for sharing. |
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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I think TT11 will sell fake products when pigs fly. It is the biggest TT webshop in Europe, with the most choices and they are Darker's best and biggest reseller in Europe.
Darker knows exactly what stands in TT11'page. Taking the risk of selling openly a fake one would be suicide for them.
Edited by kakapo - 02/06/2020 at 2:43am |
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Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm
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momus
Beginner Joined: 08/14/2017 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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hleett
Silver Member Joined: 04/13/2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Can you prove it with photos of ruler on blades? My ds90 is 150 x155mm.
Edited by hleett - 02/06/2020 at 9:44am |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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Exactly. Speed 90 FL has a headsize 155x150mm. I cut 2mm of the handle to make headsize match BTY standards, 157x150, but had to deal with a short handle.
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momus
Beginner Joined: 08/14/2017 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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it's not my data. that's the answer they gave me from tabletennis11! I don't own a "Darker Imperial" but I have 2 "Darker Speed 90", I'll measure them too and I'll report back
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momus
Beginner Joined: 08/14/2017 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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well, I just double-checked my spare Speed 90 ST
(it's without rubbers brand new, so very easy to exact measure the headsize)
it's 157 x 152 mm !! bought from tt11 a year ago (I can upload proof photos tomorrow if you like) Edited by momus - 02/07/2020 at 2:56pm |
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