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Training at 4 years old |
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connor
Member Joined: 09/30/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Posted: 11/20/2014 at 2:02pm |
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Training at 4 years old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNBQI3WRJso http://www.actuping.com/une-fillette-de-4-ans-lentrainement-avec-son-pere-video-23019.html Edited by connor - 12/11/2014 at 7:58pm |
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connor
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V-Griper
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That's soo cool!!
She is super cute!
You should build a deck so she is elevated to a normal height to the table like ZJK's father did. |
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slevin
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You can have her stand on this:
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Baal
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Wow, that is one talented little girl! And the little boy too!
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chu_bun
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These are very gifted kids. All the kids I know did not possess this level of hand-eye coordination at that age. You can kind of see that their brains tell their hands to hit the ball, but by the time the signal reach the hands, the ball already flights by.
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Baal
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Agreed, and I have seen many little kids about this age or even older, 6-7, who just don't have that kind of hand-eye coordination. Also, these kids seem to have fun doing it top, which is the next big thing. |
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Fehrplay
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Really talented! Reminds me of my first years as a table tennis player!
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JKC
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Not gifted at all. Just lots of practice, hard work and lots of opportunities to practice and people around them willing to give time and effort to help them develop. Gifted to me would imply that this level was achieved without any real effort which I'm pretty sure it was not.
More people would get further in life if they realised that people get out of things what they put in. Assuming someone is better at something than you because they have some inbuilt natural ability just stops you working to get where they are. Far better to appreciate the effort put into getting to the level they are than congratulate someone for being a good player and assume it all came easy to them.
Edited by JKC - 11/22/2014 at 6:08pm |
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jrscatman
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I don't know - at 4 years old, how much practice could they possibly have?
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Butterfly MPS
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Tassie52
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kenneyy88
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Talent is real with regards to speed of acquiring the abilities, and maximum potential of abilities.
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Tassie52
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john18
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Interseting debate. Personally, I think there is a "thing" that can be called talent and you need it to be at the very very top of the world in sport (or in an another field). For example, if we train exactly the same a group of 10 or 100 or 1000 people with for example the training method of CNT. Exactly the same amount of training for each person. After 5 or 7 or 10 years, I'm sure there will be 1 or 2 or more individuals who will stand out because they are gifted. However, others persons surely will have a good level but not all the same and of course you can be better and reach a good level with hard work but to be on the very very top... (like in the Top 5 in WR) Edited by john18 - 11/23/2014 at 6:03am |
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Tassie52
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The example given is flawed on a number of levels. First and foremost because simply putting 1000 people in an environment for the same length of time still leaves lots and lots of other variables which can't be controlled for. For example, my eyesight is crap, my limbs are disproportionate for my muscle mass, I have marked cross-lateral dominance, my proportion of slow twitch muscle fibres is very high, and I'm too stupid to learn anything. Being able to beat me does not prove talent. Equally flawed is to confuse excellence with talent. As much as I can't stand Cristiano Ronaldo, I have to concede he is a brilliant dead ball kicker, not because he has a special talent but because he practises it over and over and over again. When everyone else is heading home, he's still kicking the ball. The same was true for Beckham and Jonny Wilkinson, and Tiger Woods and every other super "talent". The hall with 1000 would-be table tennis players will have one or two who want it more and who will work to get it. That's not talent; it's commitment. |
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smackman
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that 4 year old girl looks talented
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mhnh007
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I like your writing talent .
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Baal
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So everybody is exactly the same? I don't think so. Some are tall, some are short, some are thicker, some are thinner. Some have better eyesight than others. On and on. Anyway, these kids are really good for their age. Maybe in a couple years they won't be playing at all. Who knows? |
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NextLevel
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Talent is not a myth - it's just that at the top levels, the amount of hours required to get there are so large that talent is not clearly the highest differentiator. There are levels of talent, but unless you use the right predictive metrics, how are you going to know? I mean, look at Zhang Jike's athletic base - that is unreal.
As Baal points out, talented kids stop playing this or that sport all the time. As for Cristiano Ronaldo, Tassie52, if you think all he is is a brilliant deadball kicker, you are pretty blind. Sportscience did some test on him - if you have a chance, watch the whole thing but parts of the documentary point to skills that not everyone can acquire even with 10s of thousands of hours of playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI
Edited by NextLevel - 11/24/2014 at 10:57am |
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jrscatman
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Apologies to OP this thread has gone into the interesting talent vs Hard work debate.
There was debate on about.com regarding this issue. It was proven conclusively in that thread (to my satisfaction) some people are more talented. Sean O'Neil was arguing for hard work. Then he mentions the Swedish team brought him in for training (Waldner, Persson and Appelgren - were on that team). Sean was the hardest working guy in that group! Last time I checked some of those non-hard working guys won world championships. So I say they had more talent than some very dedicated hard working players. |
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Butterfly MPS
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chu_bun
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Just think of your left hand and right hand. You can train your LH to do whatever your RH can do, but I would say my RH is more "gifted" than my LH. And we are talking about hands and arms shared the same body and brain. Now think about arms from different bodies and brains... It won't be hard to imagine that there will be hands that say 5 times the level of difference between my LH and RH better than others. Next consider arms, legs, lungs, brains... There must be individuals out there who have all the "right hand" parts for TT. After 10000 hrs of training, these individuals should beat the crap out off an average Joe with the same training.
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Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH.
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Tassie52
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A similar battery of tests could be performed on Lionel Messi or Gareth Bale or any other football superstar and similar results would turn up. Yes, there are going to be individual differences but that is all they would be - individual differences. |
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JKC
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I am in no way criticising the kids who have reached this level by this age, but as a teacher I think it is far more worthwhile to congratulate them on the effort put into getting to the level that they are at than assuming they are 'super-talented' and have got to this level easily.
No one gains if we put barriers in front of ourselves and assume we can't all get there. The ones who lose out most are the kids themselves when they start to believe they are talented. The longer you can keep a kid thinking they are as good as they are because of hard work, the longer they will keep working.
Edited by JKC - 11/24/2014 at 6:22pm |
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Tassie52
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Why reduce the argument to "they had more talent"? Why not, "They had better coaching at an earlier age" or "They're working in a better national setup" or "They have better psychological profiles" or all of the above? |
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Tassie52
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smackman
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there is no need to argue over watching a four year old hitting the ball back
just enjoy the fact we all know that hard work, desire to get better, viewable pathway, pushy parents, goal setting, luck, closeness to table tennis club to house, being seen by right people, good coaches, learning to get back up, peer preasure, strenghth of organisation, Country of birth, real rubber on bats, good support, some financial help, some fitness, no girlfriends, viscaria/ or 729 and a little talent could get you anywhere
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Ringer84
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If you are going to define talent as some sort of mysterious, supernatural, secret power... well, then yes, I would agree with you that talent doesn't exist. We can assign some kind of reasoning for almost everything that happens in this world. But when most people talk about talent, I think they're referring to those that are able to acquire and display a skill at a high level without any sort of formal training or instruction. If you met someone with a beautiful singing voice and that person had never had any sort of singing lessons, would you not say that person has a "talent" for singing? Yes, I'm sure there are physiological reasons why the person is a good singer (maybe the shape of their throat or how they breathe), but the fact is that these people have the ability to sing beautifully without being instructed how to do so. Nor have they needed to invest thousands of hours into perfecting their craft. To me, those people are "talented". In summary, most of these conversations about talent are kind of silly unless we establish a clear definition of what talent actually is.
Edited by Ringer84 - 11/24/2014 at 9:16pm |
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tommyzai
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Timo Zai has been training since conception. At 7-weeks he is doing a looping motion on both sides, left and right.
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Baal
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First, that's not what reductionist thinking means, and second and great deal of our understanding of the universe around us is based on reductionist thinking. Again, I repeat that not everybody is the same, and certain people have body types or other sensory-motor capabilities that are particularly suited for certain sports, which doesn't mean you can't be really good if you don't have one or all of those traits. But anyway, I enjoyed watching these kids. And the fact is, no matter how hard we work we can't all get there. So many other things have to be perfectly in place. |
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Tassie52
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This miserable worm, however, bows before your wisdom which declares that certain of us mere mortals have human frames which perform certain tasks better than others. This humble one also notes that Thou did not deign to bestow the term "talent" upon such creatures, and for this profound blessing this one remains profoundly grateful. |
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roundrobin
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That little kid is really talented... I can not force my son who's of the same age to pick up a ping pong paddle, no matter what, even though I have several former Olympians ready to train him and have taken him to ping pong venues countless times... You do need something inborn just to wanna do it to begin with. *BTW some posters are really talented at arguing against common sense, which also proves my point.
Edited by roundrobin - 11/25/2014 at 1:31am |
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