Loop-kill against block

First of all, loop with a nearly open racket angle. That is the rule. I don't care if anybody told you otherwise, but if you want to make a quality loop, you need to open that blade. Doesn't matter if it's topspin or backspin. There is not much difference between looping against backspin or topspin, except you have less time to prepare yourself to loop topspin. If you need power, you have to shift your weight and rotate your body. What's important is that you need to do that with a lot of acceleration at the moment of contact. Many people do it, but do it with too little acceleration. If you're doing it correctly, but still cannot generate enough power, then you need to go to the gym. If you can't get enough spin when you power loop, I think you might be gripping your racket too loosely during contact with the ball. Remember, one of the most common mistakes is that people tend to want to brush more to generate more spin, and they do so by trying to use more wrist. When they do that, they lose their firm grip on the ball, which results in poor spin, poor power, and low accuracy due to not being able to "eat" the ball during time of contact. You need to grip firmly, and accelerate well during contact with the ball to loop kill.

Sorry for being direct btw

These racket angle debates can get pretty intense, almost to the same degree as the illegal serve and talent debates. I'll get the popcorn.

Maybe you should do the same NextLevel. I'm not gonna argue lol I don't care if you disagree with what I've written. 

Yes, I did read it, Mark.  If I understand him (and I may not), that technique requires you to swing hard enough to hit the ball to stop the incoming rotation before imparting yours.   IMO, it is more of a hitting technique than a looping technique.  Good luck with it, but for what I do and my physical gifts, it is not a way that I can consistently play, though it does work pretty well close to the table.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/29/2015 at 1:57am

MLfan wrote: @NextLevel: I don't know what you mean by stopping the incoming rotation before imparting mine. Don't you technically have to do that if the incoming ball is topspin? What I've described is looping and not at all hitting... @mjamja: I'm not sure if you noticed, but I use Neo H3 for my forehand, so everything I tell you is specifically for Neo H3. The whole point of having a relatively open racket angle at contact, ie. 70-80 degrees, is to maximize the surface area of contact between the rubber and the ball when you contact the ball. And the purpose of maximizing surface area is so that you can "eat" or grip the ball more easily.

One method does it primarily with racket angle and doesng kill the spin, but just tries to stop it, the other does it primarily with contact depth and tries to kill it. I posted the videos so you can see the difference between how Mizutani contacts the ball vs. Boll. I am more of a spin based player with tactical spin (not speed) as my focus.     

I don't know how you kill with a closed racket. You waste too much of  your energy generating spin. It sounds good until you think that energy is zero sum which means that every increment of spin reduced your speed. I don't care that im 1700, i will argue this with a world champion. 

It really depends on your position. As I've said, there are only two types of loops: a slow spinny topspin, and the fast spinny topspin. 

MLfan wrote: It really depends on your position. As I've said, there are only two types of loops: a slow spinny topspin, and the fast spinny topspin.  So what if the ball is pushed deep? Move your legs and take a step back lol.

APW46 wrote: MLfan wrote: It really depends on your position. As I've said, there are only two types of loops: a slow spinny topspin, and the fast spinny topspin.  So what if the ball is pushed deep? Move your legs and take a step back lol. And what would you choose to do at match point lol, when taking into account that one is more risky than the other. In my game there are plenty of variations between your 'only two'

APW46 wrote: MLfan wrote: APW46 wrote: MLfan wrote: It really depends on your position. As I've said, there are only two types of loops: a slow spinny topspin, and the fast spinny topspin.  So what if the ball is pushed deep? Move your legs and take a step back lol. And what would you choose to do at match point lol, when taking into account that one is more risky than the other. In my game there are plenty of variations between your 'only two' Just youtube Li Xiaodong's lectures...if you're in position, do the fast loop; if you're not in position, do the slow loop. End of discussion lol why would you do, for instance a slow loop, when you can do a fast loop? What are these "variations" ? I would obviously still do the fast loop at match point if I were in position. It makes no sense to get in position, then do a slow loop, because the opponent can block it back more easily... It depends on the quality of the shot played by your opponent, what you should do, and what you can do without the risk of missing and giving an easy point away are two different things. 'what are these variations' next time you play a quality player, and block in the net, ask yourself if it was your mistake or his deception.

ghostzen wrote: MLfan wrote: APW46 wrote: MLfan wrote: APW46 wrote: MLfan wrote: It really depends on your position. As I've said, there are only two types of loops: a slow spinny topspin, and the fast spinny topspin.  So what if the ball is pushed deep? Move your legs and take a step back lol. And what would you choose to do at match point lol, when taking into account that one is more risky than the other. In my game there are plenty of variations between your 'only two' Just youtube Li Xiaodong's lectures...if you're in position, do the fast loop; if you're not in position, do the slow loop. End of discussion lol why would you do, for instance a slow loop, when you can do a fast loop? What are these "variations" ? I would obviously still do the fast loop at match point if I were in position. It makes no sense to get in position, then do a slow loop, because the opponent can block it back more easily... It depends on the quality of the shot played by your opponent, what you should do, and what you can do without the risk of missing and giving an easy point away are two different things. 'what are these variations' next time you play a quality player, and block in the net, ask yourself if it was your mistake or his deception. Um, if you block a ball into the net, it can be either your mistake or your opponent's deception. I'm asking you what your variations are. I train with Jia A and Jia B players in china so don't say i don't play with quality players.  Slight Highjack... but.. Thats a pretty good standard to hit with . Any chance of any Video of the players playing or drilling?

I believe this is a relatively new video of ZJK's loop.  Just throwing it out there...

Is this discussion about a simple LOOP or Loop-Kill? Why is everybody in both threads posting videos of loops and talking about simple looping motion? Am I the only talking about a finishing shot? I am pretty sure the OP was asking about the finishing shot, when you get a weak ball and you have the opportunity to end the point.