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tenergy 05 vs MX-P |
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PointEngineer 
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 Posted: 04/05/2016 at 4:53am |
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Sorry I didn't weigh but I would suggest MX-P is likely a few grams heavier (though maybe just a couple). It is not what I would call a very heavy rubber, but two sheets of max MX-P on a 90g standard sized blade I think will be on the slightly heavy side (but for many manageable).
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/05/2016 at 9:08am |
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MX-P 2.0 and 05 Max are similar in weight so MX-P Max is heavier.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ThePongProfessor
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Posted: 04/05/2016 at 1:46pm |
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Agreed except that MX-P is (quite a bit) faster on loop-drives, but more controlled (slower) on touch shots.
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/05/2016 at 2:06pm |
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I didn't experience that, but I will focus on comparing that again.
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nv42
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Posted: 04/05/2016 at 2:34pm |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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notfound123
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 1:24pm |
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Based on all of the above, wouldn't it be more accurate comparing MXP to ... T64 which is supposed to be faster, less spinny version of T05? (Although Mizutani would probably disagree.. just look at the spin he can produce with his T64
 )
Edited by notfound123 - 04/06/2016 at 1:26pm |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 1:29pm |
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I don't think someone who played with T64 would enjoy playing with MX-P. It's really about how strokes work similarly with MX-P and T05. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ahsq
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 4:10pm |
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T05 has a harder topsheet and harder sponge (smaller pores) than that of the MXP.
Their structures tell the attributes. the attributes differ with pip height, size, degree of angle on sponge and the glue each company uses glue the sheets. |
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rickywinataa
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 5:58pm |
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I would say this is 100% wrong. T05's topsheet is way mushier than MX-P's
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Saitama
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 6:31pm |
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It's vice versa i guess.. I used mxp as fh and bh rubber then switched my bh to t64 after a day i reverted back to mxp. Edited by Saitama - 04/06/2016 at 6:33pm |
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rocketman222
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Posted: 04/06/2016 at 7:39pm |
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I feel the same, that T05 is way mushier and feels much easier to control
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nv42
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 12:16am |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 6:47am |
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In terms of properties not related to how it plays, I find T05 is tighter than MX-P (meaning it takes more force to stretch it) but that is overall sponge and topsheet. I also find T05 overall harder (meaning it takes more force to compress it). I am never quite sure what people mean by mushy since it is more open to interpretation than other adjectives, but I would interpret it as some sort of combination of high-softness/low-springiness, in which case MX-P is perhaps slightly more 'mushy' in general.
Topsheet of MX-P has pips structure more sparse than T05. Pips appear very slightly smaller diameter with MX-P but this looks marginal, gaps are noticeably larger. Topsheet thickness (not including pips) is higher with MX-P (and looks to be the main reason for the slightly higher overall density and weight). Sponge is much more aerated with MX-P (to the extent where you could imagine a degree of inconsistency at different locations could result in play). |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 7:37am |
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I find the T05 topsheet extremely easy to stretch. Otherwise, where is all that spin coming from even on very short motions? In fact, this is why the easy spin on MX-P is less - it's not at easy to stretch on shorter strokes. Hence more control.
Edited by NextLevel - 04/07/2016 at 7:59am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 8:13am |
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I am not suggesting anything about topsheet alone, rather the rubber as a whole. Anyway "ease" of stretch does not imply higher elasticity (meaning a small stretch for the same force could return all the energy perfectly elastically), and thus spin is not dependent on this (steel for example would deform only a small amount with large force and still behave elastically).
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 8:18am |
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Okay. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would say T05 feels harder than MX-P. But we all play a different game, I guess.
Edited by NextLevel - 04/07/2016 at 8:21am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 8:45am |
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The thinner topsheet suggests T05 should be softer and easier to stretch for shots that emphasise on that aspect. The denser pip structure and possibly slightly harder sponge of T05 could then reverse that to some extent. Not that much in it for me when playing either way.
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seguso
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 8:51am |
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I feel T05's topsheet is harder than MX-P's, but the sponge is softer (45 vs 47.5). That would explain the different impressions.
As for the topsheet thickness, I believe it should be the same, since both t05 and mx-p have a 2.1mm sponge. Edited by seguso - 04/07/2016 at 8:52am |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 9:22am |
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Darker (sponge) is MX-P 2.1-2.2, lighter is Tenergy 05 2.1. Apologies for non-lab conditions noddy photography. I tried to align as best I could, and apply force with a ball from both orientations.    Edited by PointEngineer - 04/07/2016 at 9:29am |
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Bran
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 9:42am |
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Very nice, but it's still not entirely clear what is happening to the sponge when you press the ball, as you've stacked them – is it the sponge of the top rubber that's giving in, or the one under? I think it's better if you do it directly on the table. Would be good as well to do the same test but with the rubbers upside down, pressing into the sponge directly.
What's for sure is that the T05 topsheet is much firmer, and this spreads the pressure on the sponge more evenly, which will give it a firmer feel. It might also explain why it's much harder to bottom out the T05 despite its not so hard sponge. |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 9:53am |
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Will see what I can rig up. But from what I saw and felt the sponge is softer with MX-P, the rubber topsheet is thicker with MX-P (I hope that is clear from the photos), the pips are more spread out (should also be clear) with MX-P, and the result overall it seems to me is that T05 is slightly firmer with the force I applied on the ball.
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DreiZ
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 9:53am |
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Played with both, t05 2.1 on tb alc and mxp 2.1-2.2 on sscb.
T05 felt softer overall but sponge hardness is harder on T05. Mxp feels harder overall due to thicker topsheet, but sponge hardness is just a bit softer than t05. T05 more sensitive to incoming spin, spinnier. MXP less sensitive to incoming spin but faster. Durability much better on MXP. That topsheet held up really well compared to T05 which on slight edge hits started to crack. MXP in max is heavier than T05 in max as pointed out by others. |
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Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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Argothman
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 10:15am |
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I'm not sure what your experience with durability is, but Tenergy is famous for lasting 6+ months, while MX-P quality deteriorates very quickly unless you periodically re boost it. There's a member of our club who reglued a very old sheet of T05 and his loops are even more deadly than usual even though it's very old and the edges are almost destroyed. Tenergy is certainly an investment, but especially if you don't train intensely all the time, it'll last a long time.
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 10:29am |
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I think, it is that "feels harder" bit that is so open to people's senses and perception. It will probably be different at different impact forces, and the "feel" as player perceives it when playing a stroke is going to be affected by the weight of the bat, the sound made, the age of the rubber as it starts to change (or booster wears off if applicable), and perhaps what the person has become atuned to thinking the "vibrational feel" of a hard versus soft setup feels like. It really is difficult to be sure we all mean the same thing when we say it feels harder/softer/mushier etc. from playing experience. Just like people keep saying the poly ball feels heavier, when probably what they experience is a higher peak force due to the poly ball being harder (which I am pretty sure it is), and weight differences probably are not being felt. When people try to agree on comparison of colours for example we often see the same (eg this colour is more green, than blue, or it is more green than some other colour that has some green component etc). When there is not so much difference between two rubbers' feel but they vary in different areas of play I think these loose terms can become uniquely evaluated by each person.
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slevin
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 10:34am |
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Yes, but when 99 out of 100 people (in all TT forums) say that MX-P feels harder than T05, one tends to listen... :) There are outliers: these rubbers come in ranges of hardness levels. But I'll say that the likelihood of coming up with a T05 that is harder than a MX-P is small.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 10:35am |
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Durability tends to be used simultaneously by different people to mean sturdiness and longevity. People should always distinguish between both.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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PointEngineer
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 11:11am |
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It does seem that a lot of people are saying MX-P feels harder (not sure about 99%) but I have not looked. I would say I feel like it is harder for touch play, softer for power play, and pretty similar some where in between, and that would suggest an overall softer topsheet with T05, but T05 having a harder sponge. If 99% are saying it is harder, period, then I will just have to stay a minority with my experience of the sheets I have compared, but given that I am not really sure how I feel something is soft or hard I don't even value my own opinion that much :-)
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DreiZ
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 12:00pm |
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Durability should not be mixed with performance longentivity.
I'm talking about physical durability of the rubber. T05 showed greater signs of wear than MXP. The drop in performance of both rubbers >AFTER the factory booster wears off< is pretty linear to me. But I had 2k player tell me that T05 "dies" after 2-3 weeks, I'm guessing in reference to factory boosting. I think many players that tried MXP think the drop in performance is much more significant because of greater factory boosting that comes with it. IMO both after 2-3 weeks play very similar without booster with only marginal differences. Edited by DreiZ - 04/07/2016 at 12:13pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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DreiZ
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 12:17pm |
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Honestly it's like apple and apples, or more like $80 organic apples and $40 apples; you are still going to get that vitamin C.
If a pro player can use it, it sure is good enough for me, even if they get some special version of it. Edited by DreiZ - 04/07/2016 at 12:19pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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ahsq
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Posted: 04/07/2016 at 4:39pm |
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T05 is NOT durable. Both the topsheet and sponge will wear out and chip away easily.
MXP is durable, I get my money worth for months and it show minor edge chip away only. For the same duration I think I'd be in a 2nd T05. (thats $150 - $50 = a benji saved) If anyone actually tried to pull the T05 for elasticity, good luck, it will snap. MXP required 3x the force to snap, and ONLY the sponge snaps. topsheet intact. Seguso is right on the hardness on them. even though T05 has a smaller pore sponge. Better Japanese technology. T05 has better glue between the topsheet/sponge. MXP doesnt have the same top quality. Judging 1 top on another, the pip structures show T05 has more sparse pips than MXP. I just tried a garaydia zlc with T05 on both side, it feel OFF- compared to the OFF+ Axelo with MXP. However, I didnt ask what glue the garaydia owner used it, (possibly water because he didnt even put handle grips on all his blades). I used 5 layers of rubber cement. (i over did it, i know).
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Saitama wrote: