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Butterfly Primorac Attack (Premade)vsPrimorac OFF- |
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ttennis1 
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 Topic: Butterfly Primorac Attack (Premade)vsPrimorac OFF-Posted: 05/31/2011 at 3:33pm |
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Hi,
I have started playing Table tennis recently & have learned quite a bit about different strokes. Currently I am using pre-assembled Butterfly Primorac Attack. Specs by manufacturer: Speed=10 Spin=10 Control=9 Rubber=Flextra with 1.5mm Sponge. Blade=UnKnown? It feels like this preassembled blade+rubber combo is a bit FAST, has Great Spin & seems to have LOW control. During my practices and matches I made alot of balls fly off the table. If anyone has used this combination, kindly tell me what type of Blade (wood) is used to make the Primorac Attack (ie ALL, OFF-, OFF, OFF+)? and how do you rate the speed and control of this blade? How does the Primorac Attack Blade only (without rubbers) compare to the Butterfly Primorac OFF-? If I switch over to the Primorac OFF- and use it with Flextra 1.5mm, will it give me more control over my shots? or will it feel the same as mentioned above. Looking forward to your valuable input. Thanks. Edited by ttennis1 - 05/31/2011 at 3:35pm |
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GeneralSpecific
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 3:47pm |
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If you are making balls fly off the table with flextra 1.5mm than you may not want to be using any primorac blades. Maybe try finding an ALL rated blade. Also, you should not be using a premade. Premades are of lower quality to customs.
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ttennis1
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 4:01pm |
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@generalSpecific,
thanks for the reply! I was seriously considering Primorac(OFF-) blade after searching different forums where this blade was an all time favourite for the begginers! It seemed like one cannot go wrong with Primorac(OFF-) and a lot of people said it was slow, soft & flexible so it seeme perfect for my requirement on paper. I thought may be, the pre-assembled Primorac Attack blade has been put together in such a way that it is making Flextra play agressively. Do you still think I should not buy Primorac (OFF-) and if not can you kindly give me a few alternatives? Thanks |
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stigatt
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 4:23pm |
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stick with the premade and flextra until you don't send balls flying out anymore. That is a pretty slow setup already.
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GeneralSpecific
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 6:12pm |
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To be honest I would say that the Primorac OFF - is a good blade for you but flextra is a very basic rubber that is good for learning on. What I would suggest is play with the premade for at least 6 months to maybe a year and see where your skill level is. When you are ready you may want to try an OFF rated blade like the Timo Boll Spirit or something similar to it. That way you can save money by not buying the Primorac OFF - and buying better equipment which is more appropriate to how you have developed within the 6-12 month time frame. I know that when you start playing it is very tempting to buy high level expensive equipment. When I started to become really serious about table tennis I was using Tenergy 05 forehand and Tenergy 64 backhand both in 2.1mm and this was definitely a mistake. I may be able to handle Tenergy better now but even right now I feel I'm not yet able to appropriately use Tenergy.
I do however think that when you make this purchase in 6-12 months that the blade you buy should be something of very high quality. Rubbers are expendable but a blade is something that stays with you for many years and is something you pour your energy into. This is why I bought the Timo Boll Spirit early on. That was NOT a mistake and I'm glad I made at least that decision correctly. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 8:07pm |
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On the other hand, if you wanted to step up your game a bit and not spend a ton of money, you can look into the Galaxy brand of blades and get something that plays and feels like a million bucks for under $60.
I have the Galaxy W6 which is comparable to the Yasaka Extra and Dawei IQUL rubber and I couldn't have asked for a better setup. I was in the same exact boat as you are. I grew up on pre-made paddles and played on $20 pre-mades until I got into college. In college I started to get a lot more serious and opted to go straight for the OFF+ stuff. While it helped my game a bit, I was difficult to control. After college I took a few years off from TT. My wife got me a ping pong table for my birthday and I went and dug up the paddle I used in college. Needless to say, it took me a little bit to get used to it again but I knew that I needed something with less speed and more control. I had my heart set on the Primorac OFF- but after reading through these forums a bit and getting suggestions from other folks on this board, I went with a Galaxy blade and some cheaper performance rubbers. There are lots of reviews on here talking about how well Galaxy blades stand up against higher priced Butterfly products and tons of people here use the cheaper Chinese rubber. After playing with my current setup I couldn't be happier. I spent $60 on a new setup when I had originally intended to spend $120+ and my shots aren't flying a foot past the table anymore. If you want you can PM me and I'll help you pick something out. A lot of my posts lately have been about Galaxy blades, but that's just a testament to how much of a believer my current setup has made me. **EDIT**: I'm sorry, I misread your post. I thought you had been playing for a while now with a pre-made but really you're just starting. I'd suggest working on your stroke and practice getting those balls on the table with your current setup. Your setup doesn't seem all that fast so maybe you need to brush over the ball more rather than lifting the ball which a lot of beginners do. If anything, maybe just change the rubber on your blade with some cheaper Chinese rubber to increase the performance a bit.
Edited by RyKnocks - 05/31/2011 at 8:15pm |
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TheRobot99
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Posted: 05/31/2011 at 8:24pm |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 3:49am |
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Have you personally played with the Butterfly Primorac ATTACK? Can you compare its blade to the butterfly Primorac(OFF-) |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 3:50am |
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You have explained in quite some detail about going for TimoBoll Spirit and the likes in 6-12 month's time and I totally agree with you. I would like to ask you that if I "SKIP" Buying the Primorac(OFF-) and in 6-12months time jump (from my premade Primorac-Attack+Flexta) to a TBS will I be missing some thing in my development i-e going to 2nd grade without going to 1st grade of school? In my novice view, I saw things like this: Primorac(OFF-)/YasakaExtra--->Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon/TBS--> Higher Is it OK to develop as a table tennis player without going through Butterfly Primorac (OFF-) experience? Edited by ttennis1 - 06/01/2011 at 3:53am |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 10:36am |
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I'd say go with the Primorac OFF- first. There are people who train with Primorac OFF- (or equivalent) until they're upwards of 1800+ rating. Taking it in steps will help you transition into the higher level paddles and will help your game more IMO.
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 10:40am |
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Also, don't forget that you'll be experimenting with different types of rubber, so if you go with the Primorac OFF- first, you can fine tune it with slower/faster/softer/harder/spinnier rubber to get what you need out of it. If you went with something faster or less controllable, it'll be harder to learn how to control all those different rubber attributes.
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mmerkel
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 11:35am |
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I think that without really having seen you play, it is hard to give good recommendations. So far I have not seen any premade bat that fell into the 'high speed, low control' category.
Way back in the day when I started ( I was 8 or so at the time) I played with an Allround wood with a Sriver 1.5 on the fh and a Tackiness D 1.2 on the bh. I don't think that my setup was any quicker than your premade. Next year I 'graduated' to 1.8 on the fh and 1.5 on the bh. Our coach was very strict like that. If you came with a faster/thicker set-up than this, you didn't play on the team. Be that right or wrong, I had a strong development and had continued 'success' of keeping the ball in play in my matches. 2c  |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 12:54pm |
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Thanks a lot for your valuable input! What I have gathered so far at this forum is that my current pre-assembled setup (Primorac Attack) is Not high speed, even if it is fast, it would be around medium fast. I have two views right now:
Edited by ttennis1 - 06/01/2011 at 12:56pm |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 1:20pm |
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Thanks for sharing your success story. |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 1:34pm |
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Is there any reason why you're choosing to stick with the "name brands?" There's a lot of other stuff out there that will get you into more advanced equipment without having to spend so much each time you upgrade. For instance, the entire setup in my signature costs less than a set of Mark V/Sriver rubber and plays just as well as the Primorac setup you have envisioned. If you wanna give your current blade a boost, go to colestt.com and order two sheets of Dawei Inspirit Quattro Ultra Light ($12 each side). You can get the 35 degree version for your backhand if you want. Those rubbers play just as well as Mark V/Sriver at a fraction of the cost. Try not to get caught up in the brand names. Honestly, it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I realized this, but once I did it opened up a whole new world of possibilities because now I know I don't have to spend a fortune every time I wanna try something new.
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Galaxy W-6: FH: FH/BH Yinhe Big Dipper 38* |
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bluebucket
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 1:36pm |
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ttennis1, lets look at this a little bit logically. If you are hitting balls long with Primorac attack then one of two things need to change. You can either get better so you can handle the speed of that bat or you can get something slower.
I know it's a premade and it's got flextra but for a raw beginner it's very easy to have a blade that's out of control even if it doesn't seem like it should be for people that have been playing 5,10,50 years. If you can get a little bit of coaching or even some advice from a good player in a local club you should be able to control the blade you have now OK. If that's not possible and you have to learn yourself then I think you'll learn faster with a blade that is very hard to over hit the table accidentally with. You would be looking at something no faster than ALLround and maybe better to go with def+ or all- if that's the case. something with a smooth soft feel, even a 5 ply basewood blade. On a blade like that you could put some 1.5mm Palio CJ8000 rubbers and it would be lovely to learn the basic game on :). With high performance rubbers the way they are these days you could stretch a blade like that to quite a high standard of play and I believe use it for several years if you are learning mostly DIY. The Primorac -OFF is a great blade but it's still pretty fast for an absolute or near absolute beginner, the last three people I've seen using a Primorac -OFF (all this week actually) were rated about 1400, 1600 and 2000 US, they all used it well and that's a good range to use that blade and can be used even quite higher than 2000 for sure. It's a lovely blade to use and you can aspire to have one in a couple years time but maybe not right now. I find you can give an off- blade to a beginner kid and tell him to hit loop drives a bit off the table and he will learn to do that with quite strong power and speed very quickly....... However, put him in a match with stress and having to control the ball and the other guys spin and an off- blade will make him fall to bits, destroy his confidence and it's simply much too fast. Also it's the same thing with rubbers, yes a young kid can bottom out 1.5mm rubbers easily enough during a practice hit but during a match 99% of the time he's not going to hit that hard. Anyway just remember the main thing about table tennis is keeping the ball in play, that's all you have to do to beat anyone and that slower blades and thinner rubbers will have almost never have a negative effect on your game as far as winning goes. But going faster and thicker than you should can really stuff your development and ability to win matches. P.S don't be afraid of blades with small sweet spots, it's the only way you are going to learn to hit accurately
Edited by bluebucket - 06/01/2011 at 1:36pm |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 1:45pm |
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Well as far as the name brands are considered, I considered other not so famous ones as well eg Galaxy, but didn't like the handle as I can see in the pictures, infact that may be one of the reasons I am not a huge fan of my current blade! The FL handle of Primorac(OFF-) is way better than W6. |
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Cho!
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 1:45pm |
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 2:05pm |
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As you can see in pictures? Have you actually held or played with a W6 to make that assessment? Anyway, it looks like you're set on the Primorac setup. Like others have said, find a coach or someone experienced who will help you with drills, and don't buy another paddle until you're totally consistent with your current one. Good luck in your ventures.
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 2:10pm |
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To be honest I have never held a W6, however have held other blades with similar handles and didn't like it that way. thanks again for taking the time. |
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bluebucket
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 2:20pm |
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Guys they are both good blades, if you get a W-6 with a good handle then it's great. But that's the trick with galaxy blades, they are all a bit different in the handles. That's where you are paying more with the Primorac, for the extra quality control and you can be sure of getting the spec sized handle on all of them
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GeneralSpecific
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 6:00pm |
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If you can afford it. Buy the the Primorac OFF- right now but put reflectoid 1.5mm (http://zeropong.com/product.php?productid=17709&page=1) on it. Then when you feel you are ready, upgrade the reflectoid to mark v. When you are ready after that I would buy the TBS and put mark v on that. Finally, once you are ready (maybe around USATT 1600) you can upgrade your mark v rubbers to whatever higher level rubber you may want based on how you play. You definitely will not need any other blades in between the primorac and the tbs. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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assiduous
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Posted: 06/01/2011 at 10:48pm |
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Primorac is really not that fast. OFF- is kind of stretching the rating.
It is a great blade even for beginners, may be especially for beginners. When I teach my son i will very likely start him off with that blade.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/03/2011 at 7:15am |
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Hi all,
Finally decided to go for Primorac (OFF-) & will keep you all posted about the playing characteristics of this blade with Flextra as compared to Primorac Attack(pre-made) with Flextra rubber.
Thanks again! |
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mmerkel
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Posted: 06/03/2011 at 7:25am |
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I found if I use WBG on the rubber and rubber cement on the blade, I don't get any splintering, even on a non-sealed blade. That being said, I usually rub on a very thin coat of polyurethane on most of my blades.
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addoydude
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Posted: 06/03/2011 at 7:36am |
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try rubber cement on the rubber and WBG on the blade. Also try WBG on both, and rubber ccement on both. Which combo is the best in NOT splintering on a blade rubbed with a thin coat of polyurethane?
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RyKnocks
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Posted: 06/03/2011 at 1:44pm |
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If you're gonna go with a Primorac you might as well put Sriver or Mark V rubber on it. It really wouldn't be that hard to adjust to and would be a great starting point for a beginner IMO. $50 on Flextra rubber ($25 each) would be a waste of money as it's very easy to grow out of a rubber like that. If you're worried about hindering your progression, then start with thinner sponges in between 1.5 and 1.9 and use that until you're ready to hit the 2.0+ sponges.
If you're worried about price then there's cheaper Chinese rubber that works just as well as the Sriver/Mark V rubber (if not better) that can be had for $10-$15 a sheet.
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assiduous
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Posted: 06/03/2011 at 1:55pm |
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Me too. Just one coat. I don't even use a brush because it's hard to make a thin coat. I use VIVA paper towels (no advertising intended) |
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/04/2011 at 1:04am |
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Thanks again for the great advice, I had the exact same thing in my mind but you know what the Flextra rubbers are not new, the rubbers were removed from the Primorac Attack (Pre-assembled) Paddle. Edited by ttennis1 - 06/04/2011 at 1:29am |
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ttennis1
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Posted: 06/04/2011 at 1:34am |
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RUBBER CEMENT: Need your advice for correct application of rubber cement to the rubber and the paddle. Applied 2x coats of rubber cement onto the rubber and then applied it generously to the paddle and went on to stick them together. It worked well however the rubber curled from one side because of the sponge expansion, so had to use some dictionaries to press onto the paddle and Hurried back to the forum for help and as always found help. cole_ely, in another thread said that if the rubber is applied too quickly it can contract onto your paddle. Is this going to damage the paddle like twist it or something in after sometime when the sponge contracts? I saw the video made by cole_ely and this thread after applying the rubber cement! http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27933
Will be looking forward to your replies. Edited by ttennis1 - 06/04/2011 at 1:39am |
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RyKnocks wrote: