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Elbow problems from using carbon blades?

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TheBookey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/09/2007 at 2:55pm
Anyone else out there experience elbow pain after using a carbon blade?
 
I've used a Donic Persson Powerplay (7 ply wood & foil) for several years. A couple of weeks ago I switched to a lighter, faster Butterfly Primo Vitesse (7 ply wood & carbon), with similar rubber. Now the tip of my elbow has been sore, on and off throughout the day, especially after I play.
 
It's too bad because I like the new blade. I'm afraid I might have to find a light, fast all-wood blade now.
 
Thoughts?
The Bookey | Santa Monica
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gergely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 3:17pm
Which rubbers do you use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBookey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 3:37pm

Tackifire Drive, both sides.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phrixion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by TheBookey TheBookey wrote:

Anyone else out there experience elbow pain after using a carbon blade?
 
I've used a Donic Persson Powerplay (7 ply wood & foil) for several years. A couple of weeks ago I switched to a lighter, faster Butterfly Primo Vitesse (7 ply wood & carbon), with similar rubber. Now the tip of my elbow has been sore, on and off throughout the day, especially after I play.
 
It's too bad because I like the new blade. I'm afraid I might have to find a light, fast all-wood blade now.
 
Thoughts?


I've heard of this happening from using carbon blades... I had heard it was the high frequency vibration and hard stiffness from the carbon that eventually agitates the joints. But, again, I only heard this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gergely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 3:53pm
I realy don't know...
i had problem with my hand using chinise hard rubbers on hard blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 5:36pm
maybe you are swinging too hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xexz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 5:40pm
extensive bending of the elbows lol. its like a common pain for tennis and badminton players too (and they also experience wrist pains as well?)

well i think lol. but I read a pamphlet at a clinic that talks about pains from extensive use of a certain part of the body. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hallur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 7:13pm
I�ve tried it from a carbon blade. It is because if you want to make power with a carbon blade, you have to use your wrist and underarm faster than with other blades. And mabey you aren�t keen with looping that way. It takes a bit patience to get used to it. Just warm your arm well up, and do some flexible training with your arm. That will work, Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubie60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 7:32pm
Your arm might be too weak for the vigours of the sport. Try strengthening it with light weight training, push-up and pull-ups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zerowings007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 9:49pm
Most of the above people answered are using a softer blade. They are less likely to have your elbow problem.
Some blades are designed to solve this problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote O! Ju Qian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2007 at 11:42pm

you sure you didn't get hurt before?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swiff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 12:08am
I've been using the Carbon Sardius and I've never experienced any elbow pain?  
 
But I don't see why that would affect the muscles or joints that you use.  I mean your not going to change a  stroke for a different type of blade are you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hubie60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 12:18am
I use a Waldner senso carbon and so far, I don't have any injury problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdjenders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 12:20am
Beware swiffers :)!  I too, have felt the pain of carbon.  I think my stroke did change over time with the Kreanga Carbon.  As my bh loop improved and my swing got longer and faster, I began to have to use more and more wrist to keep the blade uber-closed (to keep the ball on the table).  My wrist became a wreck, so much that I have permanently switched to a chopper!

P.S.  This probably had more to do with my anatomically weak, puny wrist than the Kreanga Carbon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 12:54am
I read about this when I was looking for info about the KLHS...I thought it was just my terrible interpretation of the Japanese...but now i know...
And yes, on that site it mentioned that Carbon blades (esp. pre 2000) did cause elbow problems....perhaps it was the carbon they used or the gluing method or w/e.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dinchu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 12:56am
people... please stop creating myths!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khoan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 1:13am
I had inflamation of the soft tissue on my shoulder before due to overuse (Thurs 6-9pm, Sat 2-6pm, Sun 1-6pm for a few months). I'm not sure why you're getting it at the elbow? Take a vid of yourself to examine how you use your limb or ask a friend or anyone who's competent in human normal motion, eg. physiotherapist.

Remember, practice correctly heaps, rest heaps, eat heaps. You're living on borrowed health credits if you practice correctly heaps and don't rest, eat heaps, or worse you practice incorrectly heaps and don't rest, eat heaps etc etc. When nature calls in the debt you'd better have enough physical wealth to repay or be crippled, literally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 2:43am
Originally posted by dinchu dinchu wrote:

people... please stop creating myths!!!!!!!!


I ain't making up BS, see for yourself (it's in Jap though):

http://www.isonly.net/~fukuttsu/mame/extra/1-2.html

I used to get pains when I first started to train my BH, but as Khoa said, if you practice with correct technique and rest it...then you should be able to prevent future pains.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 5:18am
HI
 
Do proper streaching exercises and warming down exercises (after play). You guys will free from all pain. So it has nothoing to do with Carbon plys.
 
Or consult a doctor , it could be the initial stage of Tennis Elbow....
 
bye
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 1:53pm
Theres no mystery. You have an overuse injury. Probably not related to which racket you use, but may be related to your technique or amount you have been practising certain strokes.
Rest the joint and resume training less intensely when you can. Dont do tooo much all at once
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBookey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 1:59pm
Good input. Here's the deal on my general health, to address some comments/questions above: I am in pretty good shape, I exercise, train 2-3 times a week under the guidance of a former US National Champion, and also try to rest (and certainly eat!) sufficiently. I always warm up and down.
 
I've followed this schedule for 3 years now with no elbow problems. Then 2 weeks ago, like I mentioned, I switched to a carbon blade and my elbow started hurting right afterward. The timing seems more than coincidental.
 
I've only experienced this kind of elbow pain before from mouse-clicking too much over a short period, as when I'm video editing for 12 hours a day for 2 weeks. With a few days' rest it subsides. For now I've switched to mousing with my left hand to make sure it's not that repetitive motion causing the pain.
 
Interestingly, my own coach said that she can't use carbon blades anymore because of elbow problems, and I know I that she knows her stuff.
 
Lastly, I haven't really changed my playing style for the carbon blade, except maybe closing it more on blocks because it's faster.
 
JB
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loopdaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 2:09pm
I think pingpongpaddy is right on with her diagnosis.
And remember-- for swelling use ice,
for pain and inflamation use heat.
I've used carbon for years, off and on without incident, but I'm basically a lazy guy so I don't swing very hard.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdjenders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 2:12pm
Agreed.  Overuse definitely has a part.  My wrist pain flared up when I was training 4-5 times a week + playing tennis and doing wrist strengthening exercises, despite the fact that I stretch out my wrist beforehand every time.  I think after my next tournament I will take a few weeks off training in order to do only the wrist exercises.  This way I will get the benefit of a stronger, but not irritated wrist.

Another thing to consider is that most carbon blades are a bit heavier than wood ones.  It might just be the added weight, and not any shock transmission issue, that is contributing to the joint pain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D4VOW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 3:14pm
What kind of elbow pain are you experiencing. Where exactly is it, what movements make it hurt and what was you doing when it first started to hurt. Ignore what most people are saying here. Whether the blade is all wood, carbon, titanium or any other material makes no difference whatsoever, however the total weight of blade and rubber could be a contributing factor if it's heavier than your used to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBookey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 3:36pm
D4,
 
My new carbon blade & rubber setup is actually lighter by 5 or 6 grams than my previous setup. The pain in my elbow is a small area at the outside tip. Same pain as I get when I mouse-click too much over a week or so.
 
I was playing my regular game, 2-winged attack & block, generally close to the table, before and after I switched to the new blade (and again, very similar rubber, Tackifire SP to Tackifire Drive).
 
I might need a little rest, too, as I've also been playing at work a lot. But when I resume I'm going to avoid carbon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote takaaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2007 at 11:47pm
dunno how much your blade weighs, but i've noticed that most carbon blades are heavy: 90g +

but i found one lightweight carbon blade that is quite good--the HUNTER INFERNO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2007 at 9:58am
No need to avoid your blade, its simply that you're overtraining. You might want to consider weight training to strengthen your tendons and ligaments, that'll help you avoid a lot of debilitating injuries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2007 at 4:52am

Hi friend

Take rest if it is off season. Lot of players are forced to stop playing by their injuries as they are not taking care of their injuries at initial stages.
It should never happen to you.
 
Take care
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote namari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2007 at 8:48am
I'm not sure if this is what you are experiencing because you describe your pain in the tip of your elbow, but I suffered from epicondylitis, more commonly know as "tennis-elbow" a while back due to overuse. I use a wood/fiberglass blade. It took three months to get things back to normal but here's what I did:

    Switched computer mouse from right to left hand (took a while to get use to, but I feel it was key in resting my injured right arm.)

    Did a thorough warmup of the forearm before every playtime. For warmup exercise ideas check out these sites:
    http://www.tennis-elbow-treatments.com/pages/tennis_elbow_exercise.php
    http://airsports.fai.org/jul98/#art2

    Stopped doing repetitive multiball drills on just one side (ie just forehand or just backhand over and over). Instead, I would only multiball forehand and backhand combined.

    Wore a support for the injured arm during play: http://www.docortho.com/catalog/Tennis-Elbow-Arm-Band-p-18772.html

    Iced 15 minutes on 15 minutes off, 3x after play.

If the pain persists or worsens, the suggestion is to give your arm a complete timeout for a month or so and then start back with the exercises.

Hope this helps others possibly suffering from similar injuries. For more information on tennis-elbow, check out this article: http://www.bonsecourscottage.org/bschs_healthresourcecenter/0905-02.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote non3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2007 at 8:48am
My guess is that the new blade handle is too small and you're gripping it tighter to execute the same amount of control over the blade. This may be exacerbated with wristy shots. Also I fail to see how switching to carbon could hurt your elbow, since it actually minimizes vibration. The fact that it's stiffer...you're hitting a 40mm plastic ball, so the stress caused by contact I think is also minimal. Most of the stress is caused by gripping the paddle, and if you're gripping to tight, it'll probably cause problems
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