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J-pen why not RPB?

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PingPangQiu View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/06/2008 at 1:44am
Why don't Jpen users use RPB? What is the reason? Why do only Cpen users using RPB?
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PingPangQiu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 3:19am
I only know that it is too thick and heavy for 2 rubbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 4:47am
nobody knows?
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theman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 4:53am
maybe because grip is forehand orientated too much? or the head is square like, so not as circular and harder to rpb?
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PingPangQiu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:00am
Why is square too hard to RPB?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sydoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:04am
I use Jpen for RPB. I don't have any problem with the grip at all. In my games, I use FH about for 80% of the time, so there is no point of changing over to Cpen just for 20% of the hits. After all I don't see any advantage of Cpen over Jpen for RPB.
None of the top Chinese players use Jpen for RPB because they are non-Jpen players at the start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:10am

Chinese use Cpen for RPB while Korean players use Jpen without RPB. I am sure there is a reason.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 6:02am
I think it has more to do with the playing distances between cpen and jpen.
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PingPangQiu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 6:09am
How much thicker is it compared to a shakehand blade?
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PingPangQiu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 6:13am
Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

I think it has more to do with the playing distances between cpen and jpen.
that is true as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sydoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 7:48am
Originally posted by PingPangQiu PingPangQiu wrote:

Chinese use Cpen for RPB while Korean players use Jpen without RPB. I am sure there is a reason.

The top Chinese top player mastered the use of RPB and Cpen is more popular in China so most Chinese RPB players use Cpen. If one day Ryu Seung Min decided to use RPB, I am sure he will keep his Jpen.
 
 
Originally posted by PingPangQiu PingPangQiu wrote:

How much thicker is it compared to a shakehand blade?
 
Depends on the blade, if you use Violin, it is the same thickness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 7:55am
The other factor I have researched is that same Jpens have cork material behind the RPB side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 1:12pm
Yes, but you can remove the cork to put rubber on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hhca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 1:19pm
J-pen, I mean the one-ply hinoki wood, is born for power FH loop style. In my personal experience, thick blades (CPen) > 6.5mm don't have the RPB "feeling".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GenomicsKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by silvalis silvalis wrote:

I think it has more to do with the playing distances between cpen and jpen.

I think silvalis has the most plausible reason there.  Most of professional and top JPen players execute their powerful FH loops ranging from close to table and most of the time at mid distance.  This gives them that extra split second to set up for such shot, compared to those CPen players that loop over the table.  The downside is the JPenners get drawn away from the table leaving their FH side unprotected.  But good JPenners such as RSM and KTS can compensate that drawback with good and fast footwork to a certain degree.

Personally I think if the next generation of top JPen players would likely use RBP and that will make their game more complete and give them the much needed longevity beyond the current JPenners who usually peak in their mid-20s and die down before they reach mid-30s of age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sydoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by GenomicsKnight GenomicsKnight wrote:


I think silvalis has the most plausible reason there.  Most of professional and top JPen players execute their powerful FH loops ranging from close to table and most of the time at mid distance. 

 
This is more to do with the established custom and style of the current JPen players rather then the physical limitation of the JPen. RBP is very similar to shake hand BH, many shake hand player play close or mid distance.
 
Originally posted by GenomicsKnight GenomicsKnight wrote:

Personally I think if the next generation of top JPen players would likely use RBP and that will make their game more complete and give them the much needed longevity beyond the current JPenners who usually peak in their mid-20s and die down before they reach mid-30s of age.
 
Agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:26pm
Does this generally make them better as they do lose a few point from their weak blocking backhand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sydoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:37pm
Yes, definitely! RBP loops both over and away from table can be very powerful if executed properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:43pm
I don't think J-peners need the rpb. If you look at Kim Taek Soo his regular backhand was very powerful and aggressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:44pm
you cant if the ball speed is fast. no time to smash
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:50pm

That didn't stop Kim.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sydoz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by PingPangQiu PingPangQiu wrote:

you cant if the ball speed is fast. no time to smash
Well, a RBP block is just as good as a normal Jpen block plus the  timing advantage of not having to release the thumb when changeing over from FH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manduman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:55pm
When using jpen the reason for the square head is so that the entire blade is head heavy, thereby increasing momentum and speed of racket so you generate that powerful shot. Because the forehand is technically the strongest shot in the game thats why jpen-ers go for a very aggressive fh oriented game.
However, adding another piece of rubber on teh backside makes it much too head heavy. I've tried it and you actually experience a loss in swing speed for the fh just because it has become heavier. This just negates the advantage of a jpen's extra-strong forehand and then you might as well play cpen, which has a circular head to maintain weight balance throughout the blade to play a more stable and consistent game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 5:58pm
So basically its not a good idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPangQiu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2008 at 6:40pm
i have seen some jpens for sale that are for rpb
i have even seen a round jpen that was considered a kpen lol
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elpmip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2008 at 8:10am
RPB on J-pen is entirely possible and can be very powerful. I thought everyone using Jpen should try.
 
Yes, two rubbers for a Jpen could be heavy.
 
I have tried with 5 Jpen blades with some experience.
 
1. An old 1st gen BTY Tamca blade.
2. BTY HCK Jpen
3. BTY Lenido
4. Darker J - speed 90 8.5mm
5. TSP SR8.5
 
The HCK and TSP are much lighter but TSP is balsa blade at 10mm. 8.5mm is balsa layer. As a result, the feel is soft but solid like one pty Hinoki. Darker Speed 90 is 9/10mm which is to heavy.  The feel of thick Balsa blade is like Cpen Kool (with FH:frictionLP BH:spinny SPorReverse) which is my main blade for competition.
 
The next thing is to put on lighter rubbers. It could be normal weight for FH, say, Bryce, but I use Donic Gallardo PS which is light and fast.  The BH side rubber needs to be light by either same Donic, or RITC SuperSoft FX, or even 1.8/2.0mm SP like RITC802-40 with spinmax. 
 
Darker J Speed 90 is 8.5mm and is not that heavy and can be done as above with solid feel for both FH and BH. It is a bit heavier but still comfortable for mid table.
 
It would be interesting to see more Jpen players using RPB.
 
There is only one Jpen player in my club with me using only occasionally.
 
I am more attracted to use Cpen with RPB with LP or SP.
 
May be I will try LP on FH on one my Jpens. It is no kidding LP FH loop is very deadly. LP 0.6mm is light enough.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elpmip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2008 at 8:50am
In fact, it doesn't matter whether to use cpen or jpen for RPB.
The blade needs to be light so it won't strain your wrist during RPB.
Jpen actually got more advantage by locking index finger on the cock handle. Not everyone got strong wrist like Wang Hao who has training on RPB since young.  With lighter blades and lighter rubbers, it would be more comfortable to use the wrist. 
I found also wrapping a tennis grip round the handle to be helpful. All the fingers include the thumb need not to be very tight to grasp the blade. The grip adds a bit friction with larger skin surface between the thumb and index finger to prevent slippery, or fearing the blade being thrown out during RPB. Without holding the blade too tight, the wrist is more flexible to swing more fully. With lighter blade that needs less turning moment, the wrist can add a bit spring during the moment of hitting the ball to get max speed like the smash in badminton.  The swing wrist adds speed.  This cannot be done when the wrist and fingers are too tight to hold the blade.
I have seen someone stuck a piece of cork to the front cpen blade handle like Jpen just to stop the blade from flying. I think this helps too.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2008 at 9:30am
One more thing to consider - RPB is far better for taking balls off the bounce. It's not really that suitable for away from the table powerloops (though it's certainly doable) due to the mechanics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elpmip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2008 at 4:48pm
I think off table Jpen RPB is completely possible and even necessary.
 
I find it even more suitable for Jpen than cpen as in general as Jpen players tend to swing their arm more fully than cpen on backhand. We have seen much fewer cpen backhand smashes (due to this old playing style being replaced by RPB).
 
Imagine RSM or KTS standing off table using RPB as strong as those from Kreanga, Pearson, etc, those strong handshake backhand playing.
They may become more forbiddable.
 
Yes, they can stand mostly on left side to cover the weakness in backhand, but there is a huge space to cover on their forehand which opponents will try to exploit. When young, fast foot work can compensate for it but how about when they get older when legs are not responsive.
 
With Jpen RPB, they can still stand on left but more towards middle than before as left side is covered by RPB with offensive play.
 
When off table, they could normally play defensive like block or return high balls on BH. I have seldom see backhand smashes or loops off table these offensive plays.
 
If they play RPB loop drives, like Kraenga's backhand,  this add a dimension for off table BH offensive strokes.
 
It may be possible to get a few places up the ladder.
 
-
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2008 at 5:54pm
I may be wrong, but I could swear that Ryu has started using a bit of rpb recently.
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