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J-pen why not RPB? |
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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Posted: 01/06/2008 at 1:44am |
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Why don't Jpen users use RPB? What is the reason? Why do only Cpen users using RPB?
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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I only know that it is too thick and heavy for 2 rubbers
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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nobody knows?
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theman
Premier Member Joined: 09/22/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7234 |
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maybe because grip is forehand orientated too much? or the head is square like, so not as circular and harder to rpb?
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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Why is square too hard to RPB?
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sydoz
Beginner Joined: 11/19/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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I use Jpen for RPB. I don't have any problem with the grip at all. In my games, I use FH about for 80% of the time, so there is no point of changing over to Cpen just for 20% of the hits. After all I don't see any advantage of Cpen over Jpen for RPB.
None of the top Chinese players use Jpen for RPB because they are non-Jpen players at the start.
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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Chinese use Cpen for RPB while Korean players use Jpen without RPB. I am sure there is a reason. |
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silvalis
Gold Member Joined: 09/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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I think it has more to do with the playing distances between cpen and jpen.
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Potato Face
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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How much thicker is it compared to a shakehand blade?
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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that is true as well
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sydoz
Beginner Joined: 11/19/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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The top Chinese top player mastered the use of RPB and Cpen is more popular in China so most Chinese RPB players use Cpen. If one day Ryu Seung Min decided to use RPB, I am sure he will keep his Jpen.
Depends on the blade, if you use Violin, it is the same thickness.
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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The other factor I have researched is that same Jpens have cork material behind the RPB side
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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Yes, but you can remove the cork to put rubber on.
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hhca
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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J-pen, I mean the one-ply hinoki wood, is born for power FH loop style. In my personal experience, thick blades (CPen) > 6.5mm don't have the RPB "feeling".
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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I think silvalis has the most plausible reason there. Most of professional and top JPen players execute their powerful FH loops ranging from close to table and most of the time at mid distance. This gives them that extra split second to set up for such shot, compared to those CPen players that loop over the table. The downside is the JPenners get drawn away from the table leaving their FH side unprotected. But good JPenners such as RSM and KTS can compensate that drawback with good and fast footwork to a certain degree. Personally I think if the next generation of top JPen players would likely use RBP and that will make their game more complete and give them the much needed longevity beyond the current JPenners who usually peak in their mid-20s and die down before they reach mid-30s of age. |
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sydoz
Beginner Joined: 11/19/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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This is more to do with the established custom and style of the current JPen players rather then the physical limitation of the JPen. RBP is very similar to shake hand BH, many shake hand player play close or mid distance.
Agree
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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Does this generally make them better as they do lose a few point from their weak blocking backhand?
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sydoz
Beginner Joined: 11/19/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Yes, definitely! RBP loops both over and away from table can be very powerful if executed properly.
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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I don't think J-peners need the rpb. If you look at Kim Taek Soo his regular backhand was very powerful and aggressive.
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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you cant if the ball speed is fast. no time to smash
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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That didn't stop Kim. |
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sydoz
Beginner Joined: 11/19/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Well, a RBP block is just as good as a normal Jpen block plus the timing advantage of not having to release the thumb when changeing over from FH.
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manduman88
Member Joined: 06/16/2007 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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When using jpen the reason for the square head is so that the entire blade is head heavy, thereby increasing momentum and speed of racket so you generate that powerful shot. Because the forehand is technically the strongest shot in the game thats why jpen-ers go for a very aggressive fh oriented game.
However, adding another piece of rubber on teh backside makes it much too head heavy. I've tried it and you actually experience a loss in swing speed for the fh just because it has become heavier. This just negates the advantage of a jpen's extra-strong forehand and then you might as well play cpen, which has a circular head to maintain weight balance throughout the blade to play a more stable and consistent game. |
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liXiao
Premier Member Joined: 11/27/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6145 |
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So basically its not a good idea.
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PingPangQiu
Gold Member Joined: 10/11/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1575 |
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i have seen some jpens for sale that are for rpb
i have even seen a round jpen that was considered a kpen lol
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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RPB on J-pen is entirely possible and can be very powerful. I thought everyone using Jpen should try.
Yes, two rubbers for a Jpen could be heavy.
I have tried with 5 Jpen blades with some experience.
1. An old 1st gen BTY Tamca blade.
2. BTY HCK Jpen
3. BTY Lenido
4. Darker J - speed 90 8.5mm
5. TSP SR8.5
The HCK and TSP are much lighter but TSP is balsa blade at 10mm. 8.5mm is balsa layer. As a result, the feel is soft but solid like one pty Hinoki. Darker Speed 90 is 9/10mm which is to heavy. The feel of thick Balsa blade is like Cpen Kool (with FH:frictionLP BH:spinny SPorReverse) which is my main blade for competition.
The next thing is to put on lighter rubbers. It could be normal weight for FH, say, Bryce, but I use Donic Gallardo PS which is light and fast. The BH side rubber needs to be light by either same Donic, or RITC SuperSoft FX, or even 1.8/2.0mm SP like RITC802-40 with spinmax.
Darker J Speed 90 is 8.5mm and is not that heavy and can be done as above with solid feel for both FH and BH. It is a bit heavier but still comfortable for mid table.
It would be interesting to see more Jpen players using RPB.
There is only one Jpen player in my club with me using only occasionally.
I am more attracted to use Cpen with RPB with LP or SP.
May be I will try LP on FH on one my Jpens. It is no kidding LP FH loop is very deadly. LP 0.6mm is light enough.
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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In fact, it doesn't matter whether to use cpen or jpen for RPB.
The blade needs to be light so it won't strain your wrist during RPB.
Jpen actually got more advantage by locking index finger on the cock handle. Not everyone got strong wrist like Wang Hao who has training on RPB since young. With lighter blades and lighter rubbers, it would be more comfortable to use the wrist.
I found also wrapping a tennis grip round the handle to be helpful. All the fingers include the thumb need not to be very tight to grasp the blade. The grip adds a bit friction with larger skin surface between the thumb and index finger to prevent slippery, or fearing the blade being thrown out during RPB. Without holding the blade too tight, the wrist is more flexible to swing more fully. With lighter blade that needs less turning moment, the wrist can add a bit spring during the moment of hitting the ball to get max speed like the smash in badminton. The swing wrist adds speed. This cannot be done when the wrist and fingers are too tight to hold the blade.
I have seen someone stuck a piece of cork to the front cpen blade handle like Jpen just to stop the blade from flying. I think this helps too.
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silvalis
Gold Member Joined: 09/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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One more thing to consider - RPB is far better for taking balls off the bounce. It's not really that suitable for away from the table powerloops (though it's certainly doable) due to the mechanics.
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Potato Face
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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I think off table Jpen RPB is completely possible and even necessary.
I find it even more suitable for Jpen than cpen as in general as Jpen players tend to swing their arm more fully than cpen on backhand. We have seen much fewer cpen backhand smashes (due to this old playing style being replaced by RPB).
Imagine RSM or KTS standing off table using RPB as strong as those from Kreanga, Pearson, etc, those strong handshake backhand playing.
They may become more forbiddable.
Yes, they can stand mostly on left side to cover the weakness in backhand, but there is a huge space to cover on their forehand which opponents will try to exploit. When young, fast foot work can compensate for it but how about when they get older when legs are not responsive.
With Jpen RPB, they can still stand on left but more towards middle than before as left side is covered by RPB with offensive play.
When off table, they could normally play defensive like block or return high balls on BH. I have seldom see backhand smashes or loops off table these offensive plays.
If they play RPB loop drives, like Kraenga's backhand, this add a dimension for off table BH offensive strokes.
It may be possible to get a few places up the ladder.
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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I may be wrong, but I could swear that Ryu has started using a bit of rpb recently.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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