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Juic Hinoki 1 Ply or Darker 7P-2A.7T
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speaquinox View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/07/2008 at 8:03am
I've been reading all the hype about hinoki feel, quality, 1 ply blades etc. for a while and I won't try to resist anymore :). So currently, most affordable one that attract me are Darker 7 Ply and the Juic 1 ply. Others are mostly too expensive and/or too thick. So which one is faster, softer (don't like too soft), better quality/feel etc. etc.? Write as much as you can :)
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Wingman View Drop Down
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I don't have both, however, few weeks ago I had to make a decision between Speed90 Cpen and 7P-2A Cpen.  At the end, I had to choose between "true" hinoki characteristic and lighter weight and I chose 1-ply because I am able to come up with my setup weight limit (less than 165). 
To be more precise,  Dalamchops tried both Speed90 and 7P-2A, Holda tried both Juic 1 ply and Speed90.  May be you can link those two by compare to Speed90?
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you just need to try a 1 ply and see if you like the feel at all. Nothing else can produce a similar feel.
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GenomicsKnight View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dalamchops dalamchops wrote:

you just need to try a 1 ply and see if you like the feel at all. Nothing else can produce a similar feel.

I second that.  Single ply Hinoki (true Japanese Kiso Hinoki) has this unparalleled catapult feel that you can't get from other types of wood.
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This info may help..... The following is partial correspondence between Borko and myself last weekend:
 
(My Question)
Borko,
 
   What would you say the differences are between 2 hinoki blades using the same wood, but one being a 1-ply, and the other being a 7 ply of the same exact thickness?  Which one would be faster?  Please add any of your thoughts about this question.  Thanks.
 
(Borko's Reply)
Hi  Pongcrazy,

Speed of the blade is dependent on several factors:

  • Density of the wood
  • Thickness of the blade
  • Moisture content

With one ply Hinoki blades on the top of all off this we have to take the number of lines per linear inch of its with. So as you can see asking what blade is faster is not an easy thing to do and give the answer. As both blades will be fast I would like to think that one ply will have the edge in terms of  hitting flat balls , blocking and game where quick hitting exchanges are needed, while 7 pls will be better for spins and drops and short game at the table .As you move away of the table 4-6 feet 1 ply blade will tend to start fading away while the 7 ply even away of the table will still be in focus and power will be there. So it really depends an what are you going to use it for and what game do you play. One ply blade in time aside from having great feel will become lighter while 7 ply will not loose in its weight so much.One ply blade is used buy the hitter's who like to flat hit but 5,7,9 plys are used buy the spiner's but  this is only a general separation.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

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Wingman View Drop Down
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There are no 7plys as thick as 9mm and there are no one ply as thin as 7mm. Confused   And due to the wood properties that are more sensitive, I guess best thing is to compare one to one. 
 
Even the same model, there are also wood variations for one ply.  I got 3 Speed90 Cpen blades few days ago and I had to choose between tighter grain with more color variabtion or looser grain with more uniform color.  Most of the grains space are about twice as wide.  My friend and I will put the same rubber on, I will report if I found some noticable differences.
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joris View Drop Down
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I'm not agree the Speed of the blade is dependent on
  • Density of the wood
  • Thickness of the blade
  • Moisture content
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tuco View Drop Down
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Between July'07 and December '07, I have bought 7 blades.  ( I have sold some of them since.)  In February'08 I bought a 7P-2A-7T and I can safely say I am done buying blades for a while.

I have never hit with a 1-ply blade though.
 
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May i ask why not?
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What is actually meant by flat hit ? Is it 90 degrees to the blade surface ? Then according to my experience, hitting like that would be slow. I find that hitting at an angle is the fast one. I would be interested to have comments on this.
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holda View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GenomicsKnight GenomicsKnight wrote:

Originally posted by dalamchops dalamchops wrote:

you just need to try a 1 ply and see if you like the feel at all. Nothing else can produce a similar feel.

I second that.  Single ply Hinoki (true Japanese Kiso Hinoki) has this unparalleled catapult feel that you can't get from other types of wood.
i am an active supporter of the above.see borko's comment,also.he is the designer/manufacturer,too
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holda View Drop Down
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Originally posted by speaquinox speaquinox wrote:

I've been reading all the hype about hinoki feel, quality, 1 ply blades etc. for a while and I won't try to resist anymore :). So currently, most affordable one that attract me are Darker 7 Ply and the Juic 1 ply. Others are mostly too expensive and/or too thick. So which one is faster, softer (don't like too soft), better quality/feel etc. etc.? Write as much as you can :)
also,i don't know if there is any difference between 7p-2a.t and 7p-2a..,but i have 7p-2a ,too,and i think this is a very good 7 ply blade.it is light,very  light-82 gr.i was very greatful to a person who sold it me.it is very good for any level,i think.the  low weight allows to select heavier,thicher rubbers,speed is fantastic,but again,it is a controllable blade!it is nice when playing close to the table and in mid zone,also can shoot the ball from some distance.i am keeping this one for now,because of its low weight.
 
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Many people are praising 7P2A, but I don't like my 7P2A Carbon CHN. It is slow.
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Originally posted by aeoliah aeoliah wrote:

Many people are praising 7P2A, but I don't like my 7P2A Carbon CHN. It is slow.
i remember your saying it before...may be you are just all that fast yourself and really need something different.i had a blade that was rated OFF+ by butterfly and  been the slowest of all blades i have tried.cofferlait.
this is a bit off topic....
 
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I wish I did not buy it.
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Originally posted by aeoliah aeoliah wrote:

I wish I did not buy it.
i would imagine,that it could be sold/offered for trade.evrybody has a different taste for speed/feel.
i am sure somebody will be interested..Wink
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I've never try the 7p-2a.T, but the 7p-2A is a little bit slow in my opinion. Try the 5p-2a or the darker 3ply, they're a bit faster. The 1-ply (speed90) sure feels nice hitting, but definitely doesn't improve my game in any way. I highly recommend the 5p-2a.

Iruiru jacked up its price from 6000 yen to 11500 yen :(
Paddlepalace has it for $72.
Where else can you buy a cheap Juic Hinoki 1 Ply?
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Originally posted by satthu satthu wrote:

I've never try the 7p-2a.T, but the 7p-2A is a little bit slow in my opinion. Try the 5p-2a or the darker 3ply, they're a bit faster. The 1-ply (speed90) sure feels nice hitting, but definitely doesn't improve my game in any way. I highly recommend the 5p-2a.

Iruiru jacked up its price from 6000 yen to 11500 yen :(
Paddlepalace has it for $72.
 
PaddlePalace carries Darker now?
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Originally posted by Flicker Flicker wrote:

Originally posted by satthu satthu wrote:

I've never try the 7p-2a.T, but the 7p-2A is a little bit slow in my opinion. Try the 5p-2a or the darker 3ply, they're a bit faster. The 1-ply (speed90) sure feels nice hitting, but definitely doesn't improve my game in any way. I highly recommend the 5p-2a.

Iruiru jacked up its price from 6000 yen to 11500 yen :(
Paddlepalace has it for $72.
 
PaddlePalace carries Darker now?
 
That's Juic 1 ply.
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Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace is the cheapest but not necessarily the greatest and lightest. The last time I learnt from them was that they already r running low in Juic, less than a handful left.
Watch out for its narrow/slim FL handle as it may not be a cuppa for everyone, IMO. My friend BULL bought 1 without my sounded "advice n approval" n played it only a bit n now he doesn't praise n play it anymore. I always wonder personally how this Juic would compare with my brand new H-1-9 ST. There must be a darn good reason why H-1-9 is more expensive than Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace.
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Originally posted by satthu satthu wrote:

I've never try the 7p-2a.T, but the 7p-2A is a little bit slow in my opinion. Try the 5p-2a or the darker 3ply, they're a bit faster. The 1-ply (speed90) sure feels nice hitting, but definitely doesn't improve my game in any way. I highly recommend the 5p-2a.

Iruiru jacked up its price from 6000 yen to 11500 yen :(
Paddlepalace has it for $72.
Where else can you buy a cheap Juic Hinoki 1 Ply?
 
The 7p-2a.7t is 7.0 mm thick while the 7p-2a is 6.5 mm thick.  That may be a little difference is the speed.  How thick is the 5p-2a???
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5P-2A is 6.5 mm
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Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace is the cheapest but not necessarily the greatest and lightest. The last time I learnt from them was that they already r running low in Juic, less than a handful left.
Watch out for its thin n slim FL handle as it may not be a cuppa for everyone. My friend BULL bought 1 without my sounded "advice n approval" n played it only a bit n now he doesn't praise n play it anymore. I always wonder personally how this Juic would compare with my brand new H-1-9 ST. There must be a darn good reason why H-1-9 is more expensive than Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace.
really he does not like anymore?why?did he explain?i can measure my blade's hadle and argue that the handle is slim.it really is not slim,but got very acceptable size.
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Originally posted by Flicker Flicker wrote:

Originally posted by satthu satthu wrote:

I've never try the 7p-2a.T, but the 7p-2A is a little bit slow in my opinion. Try the 5p-2a or the darker 3ply, they're a bit faster. The 1-ply (speed90) sure feels nice hitting, but definitely doesn't improve my game in any way. I highly recommend the 5p-2a.

Iruiru jacked up its price from 6000 yen to 11500 yen :(
Paddlepalace has it for $72.
 
PaddlePalace carries Darker now?

They used to carry...
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Originally posted by holda holda wrote:

Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace is the cheapest but not necessarily the greatest and lightest. The last time I learnt from them was that they already r running low in Juic, less than a handful left.
Watch out for its thin n slim FL handle as it may not be a cuppa for everyone. My friend BULL bought 1 without my sounded "advice n approval" n played it only a bit n now he doesn't praise n play it anymore. I always wonder personally how this Juic would compare with my brand new H-1-9 ST. There must be a darn good reason why H-1-9 is more expensive than Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace.
really he does not like anymore?why?did he explain?i can measure my blade's hadle and argue that the handle is slim.it really is not slim,but got very acceptable size.


uh, question: how can an 8.5mm blade be thin in handle size? add 8.5mm and some little bits for the flared handle, cmon how can that be thin? [ive never owned 1 ply hinoki, but would like to ask becuase it seems strange]
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it is well designed and you really don't focuse on the thichkness,unless the blade is so uncomfortable.i assure you that 8.5 mm would not bother you at all(my opinion,of course).
i have let my blade swing in the club a bit,and some people said they are very impressed.you have to try to figure out for yourself,but most people who have tried are putting their equipment in boxes just for a whileBig%20smile
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borko n son  do produce one ply blade?
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Originally posted by theman theman wrote:

Originally posted by holda holda wrote:

Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace is the cheapest but not necessarily the greatest and lightest. The last time I learnt from them was that they already r running low in Juic, less than a handful left.
Watch out for its thin n slim FL handle as it may not be a cuppa for everyone. My friend BULL bought 1 without my sounded "advice n approval" n played it only a bit n now he doesn't praise n play it anymore. I always wonder personally how this Juic would compare with my brand new H-1-9 ST. There must be a darn good reason why H-1-9 is more expensive than Juic 1 ply from paddlepalace.
really he does not like anymore?why?did he explain?i can measure my blade's hadle and argue that the handle is slim.it really is not slim,but got very acceptable size.


uh, question: how can an 8.5mm blade be thin in handle size? add 8.5mm and some little bits for the flared handle, cmon how can that be thin? [ive never owned 1 ply hinoki, but would like to ask becuase it seems strange]
may be you have not seen the pics i took.
see the link,please,
there is a link to another darker blade.see how they look in compariison
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Tiehwen has a nice deal on H1-9. If I'm not mistaken, someone posted it had too much vibration. Anyone confirm that? And more info on the 1-9 will be appreciated.
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they look pretty similar to me in thicknesses, maybe the head size is different. like anything thicker than a PC, is good enuf for me, when i frst held that PC, i kinda liked the fatness, so if its thicker than that, then im happy  :)
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