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Shipping Responsibly

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tommyzai View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:24pm
Shipping Responsibility Policy/Agreement:
 
Nearly every member who has bought, sold, or traded domestically or internationally on MYTT has encountered or thought about the following question:

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, BUYER OR SELLER, IF A PACKAGE GETS LOST?

I created this post with the hope of coming up with a general agreement that we can use.

What should the policy be?

Who is responsible should a package get lost from member to member internationally? domestically?
THE UNSTOPPABLE EJ MADMAN!


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dalamchops View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:40pm
honestly, i just hope it never happens



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zchao93 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zchao93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:48pm
i agree with dalam but i think it would the seller
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:48pm
its the choice of the seller. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEMANFZ1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:50pm
The only solution to this is to insure the item being shipped so that in the event that it gets lost, the seller can refund the money to the buyer using the insurance.  Granted this will add to the cost of shipping but I think its the only way.  This will also allow for tracking of the item.  Just my thoughts on the subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 10:52pm
50/50
Seller loses his/her "stuffs" or whatever. Buyer doesn't get what he/she has paid for.
So it should be fair for both to share the loss.
For me to ship within Canada is guaranteed to get there as I've been using Purolator and I never have to worry abt it @ all.
So far nothing bad has happened to me EXCEPT that new DHS H3 Prov. I shipped to US was lost and I refunded him half of what he paid me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kyoshojoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2008 at 11:47pm
I've gone through this issue a number of times when trading RC equipment online.

Selling an Item - buyers option to purchase insurance, if they forgo the insurance then it's at their (buyers) risk.  This is to help keep down the cost of shipping.  I always give the option for insurance at an extra cost.  If the buyer opts out of insurance, I'll voluntarily add delivery confirmation to have proof that the item was received to take care of some of the less "honest" traders out there.

Trading a More Valuable Item - ALWAYS insure for a mutually agreeable amount that would cover shipping and cost of item.  The insurance is cost is less painful when you think of the potential loss.

Trading a Less Valuable Item - traders discretion.  I will insure if the item value is over $30 or so. 

Anyway, this is pretty much how I approach shipping.  Keep in mind, I've only had 3 items lost by US Postal Service in the 7 years of shipping via eBay and the other "hundreds" of trades I've done outside that entity.  Not too bad, unfortunately the first item I lost was uninsuredCry.  That rattled my cage and I insured after that, which took care of the following 2 lost itemsClap.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppgear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2008 at 12:11am
I offer the customer the choice, and let them make an informed decision. By default I ship with tracking and insurance, so they will be covered if the item is lost, and get a 100% refund, maybe not for the cost of shipping though, it just covers the product value.

But I also offer them the choice to send via untracked lettermail for cheaper, but I tell them I won't be responsible if it's lost.

This way, the customer knows the pros and cons of both choices, and accepts full responsibility for their decision.

Problem solved.

You should never leave these details ambiguous, otherwise you will definitely get into disputes when a package is lost. It's the retailer's responsibility to inform the customer of the risks and clarify what will happen if the package is lost, whether or not you do a 50% refund or whatnot. This clears the retailer of any extra responsibility. Always clarify first; maybe include this information in your e-mail signature or something.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2008 at 12:14am
PPGEAR, is dead on . . .
Communication up front. That's why I created this post . . . to generate this dialogue and encourage buyer and seller have a clear understanding of responsibility. It's all our hope that the package arrives safely, but . . .
THE UNSTOPPABLE EJ MADMAN!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomtomny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2008 at 10:15am
Do how ebay does... As long as the item gets shipped with insurance at buyers expense, no one gets hurt. And for seller's protection, try shipping with receipt confirmation(sign request).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2008 at 12:39pm
Within the USA shipping is very easy and not too expensive. Delivery confirmation is about .75 cents and insurance for about $2.00. However, as soon as a package leaves the country the price goes WAY up. Registered and Express from USA to other countries is too expensive. The other problem is the postal service and customs of many other countries are NOT as reliable as the USPS and USA Customs tend to be. I don't mean to sound boastful, but this is true. There are many countries whereby the customs and postal workers open up packages and steal! That doesn't happen too often here. I've lived in many places in the world and sadly this is true. :-(. So, as a seller it's very scary for me to pack something nicely, post, then cross my fingers and say my prayers that once it gets to the other country it will make it to my customer! For many other countries it's a little better to ship to USA. They seem to have affordable registered mail and tracking by comparison.

In conclusion, I think it all comes down to communication. The buyer and seller both need to agree upon the terms prior to shipping. I think the buyer needs to be presented with the options and make the decision to pay more for more safety or less for less safety or share the risk with a 50/50 split. Whatever the agreement, as long as there is an agreement, there shouldn't be any fighting  if the package gets lost!

I'd like to mention that as a EJ Madman I have been on both ends several times, getting burned in both directions.

When a package gets lost it stinks for both, buyer and seller.
THE UNSTOPPABLE EJ MADMAN!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvolutionTTC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2008 at 1:22pm
Without insurance buyers fault.
Selling without giving buyer option to purchase insurance sellers fault.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halibass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2008 at 10:10pm
Bump back up to the top for general info. Thx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnopgnipster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2008 at 10:22pm
Seller's fault for not tracking the package, and/or buying insurance. My shipping and handling fees might be a little bit higher when I send equipment, but at least I know what happenned if there is a problem.
Cheers!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halibass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2008 at 10:29pm
Seller can provide insurance (and mark up the total price to cover that charge), or can offer insurance at an additional fee for the buyer. There's no set way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2008 at 12:01am
My stance is that if it's trackable I guarantee it.  Except I've told a couple people in south america if they want me to ship down there, they're on their own.  But the big exception is first class.  Smaller orders can go much cheaper first class to europe, canada, aus.  But if the customer accepts that discount on shipping, they're accepting the risk.  And I'm always VERY careful to explain that in very clear terms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patient.bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2011 at 1:57pm
Who is responsible if a package got lost ?
- Always the seller. If the seller cannot prove that the package was delivered to the buyer's address, sorry bad luck is what Paypal or Credit Card company will say.
Claiming that the buyer did not opt for insurance sounds like a good argument, but that's all it amounts to: talk. If a dispute is filed, the buyer will always win.

Who is responsible if the package came damaged in transit and was not insured ?
- Seller, because he controls the packaging aspect: what type of box, how much cushioning, etc.

The tactic of offering insurance as an option to buyers is just a gimmick to pass on the insurance cost to the buyer. A smart buyer would never opt for it because they would know the burden is on the seller. A smart seller would Always insure what can be damaged or lost in transit.

But again, not many buyers know that, and they will fall for the verbal intimidation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike7381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2011 at 1:14am
I totally agree with Patient.Bird. Since there is no way a seller can prove if the shipment gets to the buyer's address, seller should be responsible for it. Especially in this forum, when the buyer trust the seller by paying for the items first and without any security. Obviously sellers from this forum can just take the money and not send the money. If that happen, there is nothing the buyers can do, because sending payment as gift means giving away the money and hoping the seller is honest and send the goods. I personally would rather pay a little extra and have a more secure payment method. I mean after all it is just a few dollars difference. 1.9 - 2.9 % +30cents. I am new from this forum and are planning to buy tons of item here, however, I will tell the seller that I will pay the extra Paypal fee to have the peace of mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnopgnipster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/11/2011 at 6:29am
I always ship with Delivery Confirmation. That way I know it got there. I also use Paypal because of the safety features.
 
CHEERS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2013 at 7:07am
Agree with main points here.  Also, why in the future I simply won't be selling anything from US to abroad except Canada.  Too unpredictable and costly.
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