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Return board question |
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dingyibvs 
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Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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 Topic: Return board questionPosted: 10/16/2011 at 7:15am |
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So, I've been meaning to build a return board for quite a while, but now that I've got noise complaints from neighbors in my apt building for hitting the ball against the glass windows(
 ), I've finally decided to get one. Obviously, being the el cheapo that I am, I'm not gonna buy a premade one, so I'm looking for some suggestions on how to build one. Actually, I'm planning to build two, one with inverted, and one with LP.First, what rubber would you guys recommend? I don't wanna pay a lot for them, so I plan to get those 10x rubber deals from eacheng, preferably for under $30. So my options for inverted rubbers are: Kokutaku 007, RITC training rubber, Three Nine 999T, and RITC Cross Universal. Now, if you guys think these rubbers all suck, I'm willing to go up to $40 for say a Mercury II or a Dawei 2008 Super Power, or Reactor Thunder, or something like that. For LP it seems like my only choice would be the Meteor 8512, so no questions about that. However, I've never played with LP before, would it be better if it had sponge? Also, how effective is treating LPs? I want the spin reversal to be as high as possible. For the board, what kind of wood and in what thickness should I get? I may need it to be a bit thicker to dampen the noises. More importantly, what type of hinge mechanism should I use to ensure the best adjustability in terms of "racket angles" and stability? Note that I'm not terribly good at doing wood work, so something relatively simple would be best. In fact, I'm willing to pay a lil extra for some sort of premade hinge thing that I can just attach the board to somehow. Also, what size would be good? I was thinking of a 2x3 arrangement, does it need to be larger? I can do 3x3 or 2x5 as well, obviously.
Edited by dingyibvs - 10/16/2011 at 7:16am |
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 9:11am |
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First off, really good topic idea.
disclaimer: everything else in this post is speculation with the morning coffee. regarding rubbers: make sure the rubber is fast enough (like dawei super power 2008) to provide a speedy enough block. i could see real problems with tacky super slow rubbers like the 3 nines and the low end of Mercury II's power band dumping the "returns" into the net before they got back to you. regarding noise: some sort of foam backing on the opposite side of the plywood would certainly help dampen/muffle/mute the sound. anything from carpet padding to foam insulation would be simple to cut and attach, but you could go as crazy as to purchase material that was designed for acoustic dampening. |
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Imago
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 9:13am |
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Reactor Corbor is just perfect. It serves 2 years now.
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Kolev
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 9:50am |
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    This is what I did long ago. Now it's full of rubbers and I have only 4 brand new cheap sheets, all the rest are old rubbers from my mates which I cut in a shape of rectangular tile and glued them exactly as they were tiles. The biggest problem for me was to figure out how mount the board(s) to the legs. The 3rd picture shows what I did, the only thing which is missing from the picture are the two very thick and strong rubber washers which stay between the metal washers and the wood, each side of course. Those rubbers washers are strong enough to keep the the board in any inclination. If you are curious I may do few more pics of the board to show you all the details, with rubbers and washers.Don't buy new rubbers you don't need them Edited by Kolev - 10/16/2011 at 10:08am |
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chopchopslam
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 2:37pm |
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If noise is not a concern, is there any reason to bother attaching rubber? I guess if you're trying to simulate the cushioning of inverted rubber slowing down the spin, I can see that, but it's going to slow down your returns. I think you'd be best off just hitting it off the wood -- it will give you spin reversal similar to LP's with a lot of speed.
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dingyibvs
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 5:57pm |
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Thanks everyone, that's a lot of good suggestions! The reason I was thinking of MII 36 is because I intend to use it on my BH too, so I'd have quite a few extras for that purpose, but it's cheap enough that I don't really have to worry about that. For price considerations, I think I'll go with the Dawei 2008 SP since eacheng has a 10x wholesale price for it.
Kolev, that seems like a pretty nice design, could you give me some specifics on the hinge mechanism? I think I'll build one that'll stand on the table so it's easy to move it around. After all, the ping pong table is on a different floor of my building. chopchop, yeah, the noise is a concern, so I do want a rubber to dampen it down a bit. Also, if wood acts anything like the glass I've been hitting off of, the speed is too great to simulate a real return IMO.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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assiduous
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Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 11:22pm |
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Umm.. any rubber will do.
I have 2 return boards and a few months of experience now. I actually can recommend slow rubber and thin plywood, so to dampen the shots. My problem with my return boards is that I can't swing hard at all. I can only practice control, but if I put any power the ball flies away. I got 1" plywood but I recommend half, or maybe 3/8". That's cheaper tool. My return boards are both 5x2. You don't need 3 rows, im only 1500, but I find it impossible to miss the 2 rows. Kolev's mechanism is big and difficult to move around. Just buy 2 music stands and attach the plywood to them. Super cheap and easy + it is adjustable in every possible way, AND you have the benefit of having the two board look different direction. That is very important for drills. I put 1 down the line and 1 on the diagonal, and both look towards me and I can alternate shots all day.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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dingyibvs
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Posted: 10/16/2011 at 11:41pm |
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Thanks man, music stands sound like a great idea! Any specific one you'd recommend? My only concern is that music stands are usually tilted upwards, how would I adjust that? It sounds like slower low-throw rubbers would be the best, anybody know which one of the cheap 10x eacheng wholesale rubbers would fit that criterion? I wasn't even looking for something that'll actually let me rally, considering I'm looking for a glass window replacement
 , but if I can find a setup that allows me to do that, it'd be fantastic! I may end up getting 3 |
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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Imago
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 2:31am |
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Don't use slower low-throw rubbers as they require almost unnatural strength and spin to make the ball land back in your part of the table. Or you will have to fix the board vertical which is not a normal position for the blade.
Here is your rubber 16 mm MDF will be fine for a board.
Edited by Imago - 10/17/2011 at 2:53am |
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Kolev
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 5:11am |
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 I am a professional musician with pretty big PA, lights and all king of accessories and I have thought about using some of my stands, but it wasn't that easy, unless I had professional tools. The wooden legs were not difficult to do-they took me 15min. Tonight I'll make some more detailed pictures of the mechanism, cause actually that was the most difficult to figure out, but once I came with the idea it was pretty fast as well, another 15min |
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magister
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 5:59pm |
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Poor man's return board Instructions.
1) Find Plywood 2) Lean it against the table 3) Find the proper angle 4) loop away (but gently) My table is outside, and I simply lean a piece of plywood against the other end of the table and take off the net so that the ball will return to my side of the table. I have thought about attaching rubbers to it, but I think the rubbers will quickly lose their grip (Louisiana). Thought about short pips, but then I think "why"? What is different about return board with wood as opposed to rubber? It is not like you are getting topspin. Is a rubber induced block all that different from a wood block? Maybe placing various rubber types around the board (lp, mp, sp, and inverted) would make it lively, but no matter what, the return board is a compromise. I would like to try a real one to see if it is worth it. Edited by magister - 10/17/2011 at 6:04pm |
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Butterfly Primorac
FH: Cases Inspirit BH: Sriver EL 1.9 |
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sweetstrike
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 6:53pm |
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Would a return board with just 1 sheet of rubber be too difficult to use?
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Kolev
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 8:38pm |
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     Pretty simple , except the time for cutting the rubbers and gluing them. I've used any possible rubber I've found and that makes the board really interesting to play against.One thing-don't try to mix pips out with inverted. It isn't going to work, but having pips out on the other side could give some extra practicing fun Edited by Kolev - 10/17/2011 at 8:57pm |
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Stoi
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 9:00pm |
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If your strokes have that extreme precision... or if you are not bored to gather the balls from the ground more than playing Edit: Kolev what are the mid rubbers? They are covering huge amount of space Edited by Stoi - 10/17/2011 at 9:03pm |
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Kolev
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Posted: 10/17/2011 at 9:09pm |
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Some cheap Artengo. I guess they were not more than 5€ per piece,so I paid maybe around 30€ which I really sorry about
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
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assiduous
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Posted: 10/18/2011 at 12:10am |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrwJU9ePnY
Look at this. I just copied his idea. I bought the exact same ones like those on the video from ebay. THey tilt everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE. Height and every possible angle is adjustable. The music stands are not only easier to make, but the take no space and are so eazy to fold and move around, like take them to the club. Really, music stands is the way to go.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Imago
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Posted: 10/18/2011 at 2:48am |
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This is the best construction ever.
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Imago
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Posted: 10/18/2011 at 2:59am |
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Here is my returnboard
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Kolev
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Posted: 10/18/2011 at 7:45am |
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 Wow, nice. Always loved the idea of having two boards. |
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
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Ross Leidy
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Posted: 10/18/2011 at 9:23am |
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I've never built a return board, and hadn't really considered that you might cover it in rubber. Has anyone tried using rubber roof sheeting as an alternative to individual TT rubbers? Certainly, it wouldn't have exactly the same rebound as TT rubbers, but it would have a dampening effect and it's certainly cost-effective. A quick search found the following site selling a 10ft x 5ft sheet for about $35, which should be enough for a couple boards. There's also thinner and thicker versions of the sheeting. Here's the link: http://www.flatroofsolutions.com/Black-EPDM-60-mil/Black-EPDM-60-mil-10-Feet-Wide-p-20.html
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chopchopslam
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Posted: 11/21/2011 at 11:38pm |
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I like the idea of the rubber roof sheeting -- seems a bit silly to waste a bunch of actual TT rubbers on a return board.
I was thinking of making a return board that hangs on the wall. Just take a sheet of plywood, put some rubber on it, and put a string you can adjust on the back so you can hang it at different angles. Anyone tried this? Of course, the disadvantage is you gotta move the table close to the wall to use it, but you don't have to worry about acquiring music stands or storing them somewhere. |
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80 National Team Pogo LP .6mm |
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chopchopslam
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 12:13am |
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smallparts.com has 36x12in sheets of rubber for about $10 but they have a huge inventory so it can be tough to find the right ones (by right I just mean usable size and cheap price). The one I found was Neoprene Medium-Strength Rubber Sheets, ASTM D2000 BC -- there may be cheaper options for all I know but that seemed pretty reasonable.
Edited by chopchopslam - 11/22/2011 at 12:43am |
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
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Ross Leidy
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 9:15am |
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Sure!
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Imago
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 9:40am |
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Are you sure this membrane has the properties of a general rubber with general sponge?
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Ross Leidy
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 9:53am |
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Nope, I have no idea having never tried it. But, I'm guessing it's closer to TT rubber/sponge than just hitting a bare piece of wood.
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assiduous
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 10:58am |
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This rubber will not have 'throw', meaning it will reach like the wall of a pool table. It will be pure ricochet geometry : )
I don't know why bother. 10 rubbers are 30 bucks with shipping. How much could you possibly save. For the record, my second board has only 6 rubbers (2 x 3) and I have no problem hitting it continuously, and I am not that good.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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chopchopslam
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Posted: 11/22/2011 at 4:10pm |
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No, but that's pretty much out the window already since you're attaching the rubber to a solid board instead of a person's hand which moves around. Throw angle really doesn't matter -- just adjust it. You can order the rubber from smallparts.com in different hardness ratings, from 30A, slightly firmer than a rubberband, to 80A, which would be harder than the bottom of a sneaker. I figure going very soft would make it feel more similar to a rubber on sponge, but not really sure about thickness... probably need to keep it quite thin to avoid getting too slow. 1/16 of an inch? 1/8 of an inch? Tough to guess.... I think very thin but soft would probably work OK. I'll be the guy at home depot experimentally bouncing ping pong balls off of rubber roof sheeting, haha. Edited by chopchopslam - 11/22/2011 at 4:12pm |
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matttseng
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Posted: 12/02/2011 at 9:49pm |
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Hi all
Anyone know what the thing that Kolev used to fix the metal bar. (the curved plate) I tried metal hinge, metal plate that fixes rod.....nothing useful return. Thanks in advance. |
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vader555
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Posted: 12/03/2011 at 9:53pm |
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it think that is a basic sliding door lock (the sliding part removed)
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SchlagerCarbon:Sriver/SriverEL
AndroCarbonLightOff+:AndroCor2/Plasma Pending:Sardius:Thor's/Thor's |
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Wally Rebounder
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Posted: 12/30/2011 at 12:26pm |
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Chopchopslam, good job. Definitely very functional return board. You're on the right track regarding the rubber. A commercial grade product is going to be more cost effective than individual table tennis rubbers. I've tested virtually every rubber type product including epdm. I'd stay away from this one. Not only does it not have any rubber qualities your looking for (i.e. spring, tack) but really has a chemical smell. That's the problem with many of the synthetics, no bounce, tack and they smell. I would take a look at natural pure gum rubbers. Like a rubber band they have a lot of spring built in. That's why natural rubber is used for drum practice pads. Also natural rubber is a 40a duromter, almost exactly the same as table tennis rubbers.
The main disadvantage though is natural rubber is very hard to glue. Nothing really wants to stick to it. It took me about a year to finally develop the right product to adhere it. This is proprietary and I can't give away this secret and unless you want to make a boat load of return boards isn't available is small quantities anyway. I found contact cement where you apply to both surfaces your best bet. The only problem I'm seeing is after a number of years this strong glue tends to start breaking down the rubber (it's a natural product afterall). If you decide all of this work maybe is too much, my return board is available online at www.wallyrebounder.com. I've tried to keep the price down so the do-it-yourself crowd has an option. I'm a do-it-yourselfer myself and understand where you're coming from so just giving you an option. Hope this helps, Wally. PS If you're not located in US, I'm planning on shipping international next month and well post accordingly.
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assiduous wrote:
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