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Zhang Jike ALC Review vs Viscaria |
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okeimakei
Member Joined: 11/27/2011 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: 12/04/2011 at 10:48am |
Just recieved my new Zhang Jike ALC straight from Japan. Haven't weighed it yet, but I'll update when I do. My impressions after playing with it for a week:
- My last blade was a flared Viscaria with Hexer 2.1 in forehand and Adidas P5 in backhand. Very lightweight setup, with plenty of speed on both sides, and quite controllable in the short game. Its main disadvantage as I went up in the ratings and generally improved my level was that, against top level players in my country (say top 20) I was unable to overpower them with the Hexer forehand drive. Eventually the game would go into counter-looping, so I lost the main advantage I had with my style of game : attacking early and winning the point with two or three well placed drives. So I bought the ZJK ALC looking for a bit more power without losing the touch of Viscaria. I also switched to the Dark Side and bought a Tenergy 64 (black) and Spin Art(red) both in 2.1. - The blade is a bit heavier than Viscaria, but not by much. It is less head-heavy, so the blade is more solid when you wave it. It is notably faster, specially when counter-looping and lifting underspin with the forehand, but still mantains some of the short game touch that makes Viscaria (in my eyes) a little better than TBS. But yes, it is not as good as Viscaria in that respect. - ZJK ALC is quite harder in its feel. I was hoping for something a bit softer, but the addition of power for attacking made the purchase worthwhile. - The handle, as expected, is wider and more comfortable. I have a blister from the Viscaria handle, but it is not so much of a problem with this handle. Definitely a plus ! - My main problem: choosing which rubber should go to forehand. On one side, Tenergy allows for easier (say lazier :D) play on the forehand side, and makes it simple to overpower other players when you get the first attack. Underspin lifting is a breeze, and counterlooping is a pleasure. But the short game with it is hell without proper training: I missed too many forehand flips or drops trying to stop the two top-level players I played from getting an easy attack. Spin-art in backhand is better at chopping and fliping with the over-the-table backhand loop technique, and blocking is simple yet powerful. The problem is that I am not used to hard rubbers in my backhand punch or loop. Technical adjustments would be required. On the other side, Spin-Art on the forehand would get me back to the same spot I was with Hexer: Unable to overpower or send back the top-level players I aim to defeat in the first months of the next year. Besides, hard, semi-fast rubbers seem to annoy my arm and shoulders muscles! :P Summed up: has more power, has a bit less touch, more comfortable handle, buy it if you need a faster version of Viscaria-Iolite Neo, or a slower version of TBSeries- ALC. As for me, I guess I'll need to choose between adjusting the forehand short game or the backhand loop. PD: Pics and weight coming soon!
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ZJK ALC- TINARC 3- T64
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Spin Art is NOT a backhand rubber but is a great forehand rubber. Tenergy 64 is great for both sides.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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KLHfans
Silver Member Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: california, usa Status: Offline Points: 681 |
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Hi
I thought butterfly only release zjk with flared handle. Which Japanese website can you order the straight handle? Thank you Klhfans
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High_Arc
Super Member Joined: 10/01/2009 Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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I think it is written in a slightly confusing way: As I understand it, he received the blade straight from Japan, but with a flared handle. |
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High_Arc
Super Member Joined: 10/01/2009 Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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I think it's kind of funny that there seems to be quite a lot of disagreement concerning the Butterfly ALC blades. Or maybe it's just me... I think that the Zhang Jike ALC is really similar to the Viscaria. But in contrast to your impressions, mine are that the Zhang Jike ALC is slightly but clearly softer than the Viscaria, and a tad slower than the Viscaria. The smaller head makes it a tiny bit more stable in my opinion. Further the Zhang Jike ALC is in average lighter than the Viscaria from all I've heard (Zhang Jike ALC is in average lighter than 90 gr, the Viscaria is heavier than 90 gr). In my opinion, the relative softness of the Zhang Jike ALC makes it ideal in combination with harder rubbers (e.g. Grip-S Europe). I see that you use different rubbers than you used before for your comparison, so your impressions may be biased. On the other hand, if you weigh your blades and it is clearly above 90 gr (say 94 gr), then probably your blade is really different from mine in terms of feel. |
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ejmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 08/09/2009 Location: madrid Status: Offline Points: 2609 |
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i agree with okeimakei. the zjk is harder and touch in the short game is worse than +90 gr. viscaria.
for me also the blocking touch is worse. imo the viscaria (+89-90 gr.) is a better blade.
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EJ Club.
MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood. |
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High_Arc
Super Member Joined: 10/01/2009 Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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ejmaster, I assume it's like we said the last time: they play in the same ball park and the differences between two Viscarias or Zhang Jike ALC's is probably about the same as between a Viscaria and a Zhang Jike ALC. For what it's worth (probably not very much since it is essentially an advertisement by Butterfly...) here a translation from Butterly.tt (German site), where the blade is also available since recently: "Many players already know and appreciate the unique feel of our world's most popular classic Viscaria. With the Zhang Jike ALC, a revised and improved version of its predecessor Viscaria, we were able to increase the feeling for the ball again a track and make the touch a bit softer. Through the balanced harmony of speed and control the modern topspin player succeeds with hard attacks and precise blocks, as you know it yourself by Zhang Jike. Due to its light weight combined with the enormous stability guarantees Zhang Jike ALC is a strong acceleration of a powerful play at the table and from the half distance. We recommend that Zhang Jike ALC players who place great value on a blade with enough stability for a tough offensive game, but who do not want to miss an extraordinary topspin touch for a game with strong rotation." |
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ejmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 08/09/2009 Location: madrid Status: Offline Points: 2609 |
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the zjk is in the same ballpark as the viscaria and tb alc but for me the difference is noticeable.
maybe the outer feels softer but for me the zjk feels more rigid and harder overall than viscaria. it can be also the particular viscaria one has. mine is quite heavy. if the zjk blade is lighter than viscaria but as fast or faster it is supposed overall to be more rigid / harder than viscaria as it feels to me. if you have a good viscaria high_arc i do not think the zjk improves the viscaria. btwy i have a butterfly catalog saying when they released the m.maze blade that it has a harder touch than a tbs. and it feels just the opposite. maybe some m.maze are stiff but touch is softer than a tbs. at the end i like more the viscaria touch. not so important slight differences about hardness but feeling is different and noticeable to play as main blade. zjk keeps playing with his viscaria. Edited by ejmaster - 12/04/2011 at 4:56pm |
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EJ Club.
MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood. |
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High_Arc
Super Member Joined: 10/01/2009 Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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Zhang Jike still uses his Viscaria, that's the best thing. Improvement is always subjective. Harder softer faster slower more vibration less vibration whatever. Many players (e.g. Boll, Maze, Kishikawa, Mizutani, ...) all used the Viscaria for some time and then decided that they prefer something else, found their "improvement". Maybe it's that you need a good Zhang Jike ALC such that it is an improvement . No, seriously, after our discussion the only things that are different for sure are the name of the blade, the color of the handle, the dragon on the top ply and the shape of the blade (smaller head size, different handle). The entire rest apparently depends on the particular blade. Edited by High_Arc - 12/04/2011 at 5:11pm |
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okeimakei
Member Joined: 11/27/2011 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I do believe that the Zhang Jike is an improvement over Viscaria because it feels similar, but manages to give me more power. In terms of my game, that is an improvement, and I'm willing to sacrifice some touch (more short game training, yay!) for more power. The weight: 91 gr., one gram heavier than Viscaria. Pics: I have no glue left so they will have to wait until I get more. About leaving it on backhand: after this practice session with SpinArt on forehand, it will most definitely go to the forehand. And possibly purchase Tenergy 05 when I save some money.
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ZJK ALC- TINARC 3- T64
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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For the original poster, I would think it would be difficult to say much about the difference between Viscaria and ZJK when you have used different rubbers on the two blades. Certainly the Tenergy Spinart combination will be quite a bit heavier than what you had before.
As for whoever commented about disagreements about Bttfly ALC blades, it is mainly because they are all so similar, two different players could have a completely different impression as to which one is faster or softer or whatever, and both could be correct. This is because two Viscarias could be more different from each other than either is compared to a particular TBS. I have had many Viscarias and I know this is true.. I think the main differences among various TBS and TB-ALC blades and Viscaria are that the handles are different so this produces some different weight balance. However, I have not tried the ZJK blade. Maybe they really are very much different. My guess (without having used it, so it really is a guess) is that tehy are sufficiently similar that after a week or two your level playing with one would be exactly the same as it would be playing with the other. I am absolutely convinced that is the case for Viscaria and TB-ALC. |
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LGL_fan
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2011 Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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The resin content in the center ply makes a big difference on the blade's performance. The heavier ones tend to have more resin content.
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High_Arc
Super Member Joined: 10/01/2009 Status: Offline Points: 484 |
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I absolutely agree with you.
I actually wrote: "They play in the same ball park and the differences between two Viscarias or Zhang Jike ALC's is probably about the same as between a Viscaria and a Zhang Jike ALC."
I also tried to point out that a noticable difference is the shape of the blade (both the head and the handle).
If you e.g. prefer broader wings on the side of the handle than the Viscaria is suitable, if you prefer them thinner, then go for Zhang Jike ALC or TB ALC (the handle of the Zhang Jike ALC is a bit broader, and at least mine is less head heavy than a TB ALC or Viscaria).
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peter79
Premier Member Joined: 07/05/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3393 |
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I haven't tried Viscaria, but already tried TB ALC, TBS, Maze, Iolite, Innerforce ALC.
For me Innerforce ALC has the most woody feel and the slowest. Is ZJK ALC has better feel than TBS? A big FL handle is a good point, but I wish it has some woody feel and it's not mushy. |
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Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2 Baracuda Max 182 Gr |
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okeimakei
Member Joined: 11/27/2011 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I do believe I had a lightweight Viscaria, and that the ZJK is faster and with a bigger handle. Everything else, I agree, may vary.
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ZJK ALC- TINARC 3- T64
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speedspin
Super Member Joined: 10/21/2011 Status: Offline Points: 236 |
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I am a Viscaria fan and now like the TB ZLF. Since the consensus seems to be that the ZJK is faster than the Viscaria, is the ZJK as fast as the TB ZLF? The ZLF is 9.0 speed, and the Viscaria is 8.7 as rated by Butterfly. I find these Butterfly rated speeds relatively accurate. Where would you place the ZJK speed-wise on the Butterfly rating system? (or maybe it's already been given a speed rating)
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Speedspin
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LGL_fan
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2011 Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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I've found the TB ZLF slightly slower than the TBS, though still fast. The Viscaria should be faster, but the TB ZLF is a great looping blade with a very woody feel.
Edited by LGL_fan - 12/06/2011 at 12:48pm |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I just noticed that butterflyonline.com is finally selling the ZJK. Previously, I think they were only bought directly from Japan. Now that it's more easily available, who is buying them? Any more reports on experience?
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liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
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I have played with both zjk-cs and tbs-cs, the zjk is faster than the tbs. however, the zjk is a lot slower than some of the other all wood blade, such as the Stiga Rosewood. Because the zjk is slow, I had to upgrade to a Timo Boll T500-cs instead.
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Speedster
Member Joined: 07/06/2011 Status: Offline Points: 63 |
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liulin04, I thought zjk-cs and tbs-cs are more or less the same as viscaria-cs(taksim). You are saying these ALC paddles including taksim are slower than Rosewood?
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I don't understand this. I would not consider TBS to be slow, especially compared to most all-wood paddles. I play with a TB ALC, which is only slightly faster than a TBS, and that's certainly faster than most wood paddles. I wonder how the ZJK compared to the ALC.
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kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
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fyi bty rep said the zjk alc (2013) is a better hybridized model of TB ALC and viscaria to replace the old zjk which many ppl disliked. that's why it feels in between but the 2013 is made more similar to viscaria than the old hybrid, which tried to be both and ended up doing its own thing.
idk what exactly is different but it feels different and most ppl don't like it. i wouldn't trust anything that sells using someone's name rather than the quality advertising for itself.
and there is no way ZLF is 9.0 when Viscaria is 8.7. NA bty is inaccurate. they go by popular consensus, but the avg US player is like 1700-1800. bty jp charts by pro opinion after testing are more accurate. http://ta-q.jp/photo/catalog/Butterfly_2013/TXT/P033_01.jpg ZLF is clearly under ALC. i've also tried it and with a couple 2500's. ZLF is noticeably slower, soft like a photino and softer than viscaria (doesn't show up in jp charts anymore but used to be ~halfway between iolite and TBS). Edited by kurokami - 11/16/2013 at 3:27am |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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A Taksim is not a c-pen version of a Viscaria, it is much more like Iolite. The inner ply of Taksim is very much thicker and the blade is faster and stiffer. The only thing alike is the color scheme in the handle and the fact that both have ALC, so a lot of people just assume they are the same. Examine the two blades face to face and the differences are not even subtle. They are very very different blades. I agree with Kurokami that sometimes the information on Butterfly NA website is inaccurate based on my own experience with some of the products. I am told at times it does not agree with information on Japanese website, but since I don't speak or read Japanese, have not been able to verify that part. It is interesting to me that Kurokami verifies that. Kurokami, can you clarify something in your last post that I didn't understand. Are you saying that most people who have tried the newer ZJK-ALC blade don't like it, or are you referring to the earlier ZJK blade? I thought personally that the new ZJK-ALC blade was ok (I have only tried one for about five minutes), and a definite improvement over earlier ZJKs (I owned one, played with several, didn't much like any of them). Still not as good as most or the Viscarias I have owned, though I have to also say that the last two Viscarias I have bought have been a bit disappointing (faster and at the same time lighter than I like, which seems like a contradiction but is not, suggesting something in gluing process to me, or maybe difference in wood). There is a lot of variability in things made of wood. |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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are the ZJK ALC and innerforce ALC similar? i have no experience with the viscaria but it seems people around here love it ..... maybe i should buy one
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