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Review: Viscaria vs. Timo Boll Spirit ~ [AllezCho] |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Posted: 04/04/2018 at 9:36pm |
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Sigh. Did you look at anything in this thread before asking? |
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windysummer1
Silver Member Joined: 07/06/2017 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 556 |
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which one generates more spin?
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My feedback
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79696 |
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taczkid
Super Member Joined: 05/19/2016 Location: ILLINOIS Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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Viscara vs TB ALC (were those blades the same or at least very similar weight? This is the only factor that will ensure the more correct comparison. As weight is a big factor...
For example a Viscaria and TB both 90grams might play very similar where as Viscaria at 90gram will play different than Viscaria at 83 gram or TB at 83 gram... |
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toprevers
Member Joined: 09/08/2010 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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OTC feels stiffer by a notch and faster overall. More dynamic in the short game (ball tends to jump off the paddle even without much action) but very effective in offensive game. And still a nice feel with sharp and crisp contact, nice clicking sound |
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Viscaria/MX-P/Fastarc G-1
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toprevers
Member Joined: 09/08/2010 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Indeed you can find more difference between 2 viscaria than between 1 viscaria and 1 tb alc due to wood variation. |
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Viscaria/MX-P/Fastarc G-1
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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There is no systematic difference. This some variation in both kinds of blades.
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W0LovePP
Super Member Joined: 04/04/2012 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Bravo for comparing Viscaria and TBS, which are identical in composition and overall thickness. Could anyone share the thickness of each layer including the core for both blades? Maybe that may account for the differences, and consequently, the popularity of one over the other.
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wanchope
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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How about the difference between viascaria and the O true carbon? I'm using the true carbon now, since there's no cpen version of viscaria. |
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Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1
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toprevers
Member Joined: 09/08/2010 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Just tried a Viscaria for the first time yesterday.
Coming from a Donic Ovtcharov true carbon 87gr (and previously TBS 89gr), I wanted something similar but less bouncy/with more gears. Viscaria is spot on (at least my exemplary of 88gr) : not too fast not too slow, a tad slower than TBS or boll ALC but with more feel and more control. Very manageable in the short game but enough power for offensive game. Dwell time is good, throw angle medium to medium high I would say (higher than TBS) thus very very good for looping. Paired with MX-P (FH) and fastarc G-1 (BH) it is a very versatile weapon. At first, the blade may feel "hollow" or not solid (when boucing a ball on the bare blade) but once rubbers are glued, the feeling is good with a nice sharp/crisp feel on big hits. I do now understand why this is such a popular blade among players from all levels. |
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Viscaria/MX-P/Fastarc G-1
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Not even close for the one I tried. |
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regiz.rugenz
Super Member Joined: 09/25/2013 Location: San Jose, CA. Status: Offline Points: 461 |
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Does fake Viscaria or TBS performs just like or at least close to the real ones? if only cosmetics make the difference and the fake ones closely resembles the originals, I might be tempted.. :D
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Regiz°ᆗ
Rosewood_Carbon/Huricane_King °FH:Vega_Japan/T64FX °BH:OmegaV_Euro/Rasant °°°° |
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gweipwu
Silver Member Joined: 08/01/2011 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 738 |
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My experience w/TBS and Viscaria is: Viscaria is more CN rubber (say H3)friendly than TBS.
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ping pong amateur,...
BTY Viscaria FL H3 FH, T64 BH, My feedback link: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84832&title=feedback-gweipwu |
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AllezCho
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Yeah it looks pretty legit. Also keep in mind the source from where you're buying, and more importantly, the price. Insanely good deals on such a sought-after blade like the Viscaria should instantly raise a red flag.
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Viscaria
T05/T64 |
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Takkyu
Super Member Joined: 09/29/2011 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 267 |
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Thanks. But I knew for the mis-spelling of "Performance" and "Flexibility" but the fakers have corrected those errors. So fake Viscaria are on the market with not visual error, at least not as obvious as the previous ones...
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VISCARIA fl
Hurricane 3 Provincial Stiga Boost TX |
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Giangt
Super Member Joined: 03/30/2012 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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It seems genuine. The writing on the front side are aligned in both sides and as far I can tell it has the misspelling of "Perfomance" as they should have. Here is a fake one (Notice the alignment on the right side and spelling of "PEIRFOMANCE") Edited by Giangt - 07/17/2012 at 9:51am |
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Takkyu
Super Member Joined: 09/29/2011 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 267 |
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Thanks Baal and AllezCho !
Btw, do you guys think this Viscria I'm about to buy is genuine: http://oi45.tinypic.com/148ok9.jpg |
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VISCARIA fl
Hurricane 3 Provincial Stiga Boost TX |
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AllezCho
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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I agree about the contours. The Viscaria handle definitely feels thicker than the TBS handle. Edit: ^ Actually I take that crossed out part back. I have the two on hand right now, and the base of the Viscaria handle is notably wider than that of the TBS. The top half of the Viscaria handle is also slightly thicker (~0.5 mm)...so a total of about 1 mm thicker than the TBS handle. I have really rough measurement tools right now (basically a ruler with mm markings), so hopefully some one else can confirm. On a sidenote, I will probably update this review soon, since I've got a few things to say about the two blades after having them for a longer period of time.
Edited by AllezCho - 07/17/2012 at 2:21am |
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Viscaria
T05/T64 |
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IanMcg
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2011 Location: Somehere Status: Offline Points: 1151 |
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Speaking of the Viscaria, when was the Taksim produced? it always seemed to me to be the penhold Viscaria, only thicker.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I have a bit of updated information that I have been able to confirm examining several blades closely. The older Viscarias with black badges on the bottom of the handle, are often thinner in the middle ply and had somewhat smaller handles. The newer ones with silver badges are faster and thicker. (I am not sure if they made this change in middle ply thickness at the same time as they switched badges, it's just that of the four examples I had to look at, two new ones had silver badges and two older ones had black badges). It's a matter of taste, but I kind of like the new ones better. As for Viscaria handle size compared to TBS, I would say the newer Viscarias are similar in size to TBS, but the contours of the shape are slightly different, so it depends on where you measure it. In general I think the Viscaria handle will feel a little bigger -- if it is a newer one. I for one wish they were both bigger. Rumor has it they have stopped making them, but they can still be obtained from Butterfly USA if you call them and are willing to wait a bit. Apparently they sold a few at the US Open, since a friend of mine bought one there.
Out of curiosity, I am similar if thickness of TBS blades changed at some point? Edited by Baal - 07/16/2012 at 9:15pm |
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Takkyu
Super Member Joined: 09/29/2011 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 267 |
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I think they started producing the blade around 1994/95... I've seen a post about it a long time ago. Correct me if I'm wrong. /// I firstly checked for a Viscaria topic on the forum because I have a small technical question, so no need to go and start a new thread. Can someone compare precisely (or not if you can't) the size handle of the Viscaria and the TBS ? I've measured my TBS handle already ; I just need to find out if the Viscaria's handle is slightly bigger. Thanks |
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VISCARIA fl
Hurricane 3 Provincial Stiga Boost TX |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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1. I am not sure when they started making Viscaria, but I would say about 10-12 years ago. It was after they discontinued the Keyshot, and before they started making the TBS. 2. There is no one best blade, but the Viscaria is my personal favorite of all time and it is ideal looping. It has a combination of spin, speed and feel that can't be beat overall, but it is certainly not the fastest blade out there. I like the weight balance a lot, wish the handle was a bit rounder. It is not hard. It is soft, but it is moderately stiff, but not as stiff as more recent Bttfly blades. 3. Sometimes older blades are better, and the Viscarias were actually made in Japan. 4. They recently stopped making them., you should still be able to find them, but if not, see if you can find a TBS, pretty much the same thing. Edited by Baal - 06/01/2012 at 6:33pm |
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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How will Speedplay get by if we send a team to his flat in Sweden to take away his prized wavestones??????????? :)
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
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Offenzive
Member Joined: 04/23/2012 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Questions about visacria (and TBS)
1) How old is this blade? 2) Is this the best blade with best speed, control and spin? (i am a euro looper) I get terrified everytime i heard a blade is stiff and hard (and there by loose its feeling and control) 3) Why should i take Viscaria who is 10 years old (???) and not a newer blade from 2008,09,10,11, 12 etc...? 4) Why is Viscaria so hard to get/buy? Why dont they sell it? My eyes catch Viscaria (seepoint 2). I am looking for a NEW blade to replace my ~10 years old Donic Senso v1, and i got confused cause if Viscaria and TBS are so old i can keep playing with my i have now. |
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AllezCho
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Posted a short update.
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Viscaria
T05/T64 |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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TBS - imo, overly rated, so so playability (too stiff for me).
VIS - highly rated, plays well.
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AllezCho
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Updated 2nd post after another training session!
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Viscaria
T05/T64 |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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If you take five Visc and five TBS, and play with all ten blades, you would find that the rank order (1-10) on anything you care to measure -- speed, hardness, dwell, stiffness, feel-- would be unrelated to whether it happened to say Viscaria or Timo Boll on the handle. (I have actually done something close to this, but not with ten blades, only three each). If you have one TBS and one Viscaria, you will think they are different, because they are. I have had six Viscarias, they were not the same (and I have only two now, I have kept the two that were most alike, gave two away, two were stolen). They can't be identical since they are made of wood.
The handles of TBS and Viscaria are slightly different. Also one is blue. By the way, both are great blades. If you play with a TBS and I take it away and make you play with a Viscaria, after two days (or less) you will be playing at exactly the same level. It would probably take the same length of time to adjust if I took away the TBS you have now and replace it with a different one. This of course assumes the elementary supposition that you are using the same rubbers. Somebody awhile back wrote a post comparing these blades, but with different rubber combinations. So much for science education in schools. Edited by Baal - 01/16/2012 at 9:24pm |
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vvu.tee
Super Member Joined: 03/31/2010 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 236 |
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welcome to the debate club
i'd say Viscaria is about the same as TBS in terms of control, softness and speed. however, feeling/feedback is slightly better. my guess is this is due to the different hardness and thickness of the central ply. therefore on average, TBS has a dulled-down feel and vibe. however, do not underestimate the brainwashing (self-suggestion) factor: if you genuinely believe it is better, it will be better for you in fact, and you will tend to act more confidently and will be happier with the results, until you are totally annihilated by a truly superior player... and doubts start creeping through the wreckage and cracked confidence. TB ALC on the other hand is IMO truly harder and faster than the Viscaria.
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(1) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - BTY T05
(2) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - DHS H3 Neo Provincial |
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bryce_fx23
Super Member Joined: 10/30/2010 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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I have same feelings, Viscaria is more controlable blade with has more feeling and it is softer.
When I was useing timo boll spirit i couldnt control ball well, litle mistake and topspin was 1meter over the table:). Viscaria is diferent, I took it first time to my legue match and I won all single games + duble, no traning with it and I could beat rly good players. And it isnt slow blade at all, these blade just allows you put more power on the ball and you are not afraid that u will miss. VISCARIA FTW! |
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AllezCho
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Post where I'll write down updates and additional thoughts.
(Initial impressions in original post)
2nd session of testing:
I'm back at the club drilling and playing practice matches for two hours with a training partner. Most of my original impressions remain confirmed--mainly that the Viscaria gives more feedback and feel. I think the Viscaria is more controllable over the table; for example, my blocks and short game were superior to my game with the TBS setup. Close-table looping was also a breeze--spinny, powerful, and deep at the endline. However, mid-distance looping (which is where I like to play the most) was where I surprisingly began to make a lot of mistakes. With the TBS, my misses from this distance would be into the net. With the Viscaria, I was blasting super arc balls a few feet past the table with the same stroke. Because of this, I am led to believe that the Viscaria is more flexy. [Maybe it's Calibra LT (which requires a breaking-in period; it starts off hard-sponged and fast but as the sponge softens, it becomes a low-throw, faster version of Tenergy). This question will hopefully be resolved as I play with this Viscaria setup for a few more sessions.] I hope to adapt to this problem soon (completely a technique issue), and I will update after a practice session tomorrow and a tournament on Sunday.
To sum it up:
- Viscaria definitely gives more feedback.
- Viscaria is more flexy; because of this, mid-distance shots are more powerful/spinny but harder to control, while close-to-table shots are more forgiving.
Further testing + Tournament:
I'll try to keep this succinct. I generally agree with my first impressions after having the opportunity to play with the new setup a little more. I'll try to switch back to the TBS setup to see how that feels for a few more sessions, and write a few concluding remarks.
If I were to sum up the most notable observation, it would be:
The Viscaria is faster away from the table, while the TBS is faster close to the table. Edited by AllezCho - 01/28/2012 at 10:02pm |
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Viscaria
T05/T64 |
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