|
|
Joola Timeless Review |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 05/30/2012 at 8:30am |
|
rubber: Joola Timeless anti spin red thickness: 1.9mm sponge hardness: super, ultra, mega soft and mushy sponge. Joola has it for 40 degrees. on a DHS scale i think it its in the 20's size: 179x180mm weight uncut: 32-33gms test blade: yasaka galaxya finally got the chance it for a few days. this joola timeless antispin rubber has been provided by Joola Germany through greenpaddle.com. Like Haggisv said, it was really a challenge testing this rubber because im not an anti spin user though i can use it properl;y its unlike any other anti spin i have used before. I have used the Yasaka Anti Power, RITC 804 and Butterfly Super Anti spin before and these will be the anti spins im gonna use for comparison. the sponge is the mushiest sponge for a table tennis rubber i have tried. its as soft as a dishwashing sponge, very light at 34 grams uncut due to less density. the topsheet is surprisingly hard. a typical topsheet has a pimple structure that deforms when you are pressing the topsheet, the joola timeless topsheet is a bit hard and resists deforming. i will explain later the effects of this design as i go further. also the rubber as a whole is slower in returning to its original form when you press your fingers against it indicating again it has a very very soft sponge. It has a way, way softer sponge than the 804, antipower and super anti. the topsheet with its crisscross design or x like individual design (i cant think of any other description) at first look seems like a pure gimmick but upon testing and playing against it gave me a different judgement. The Timeless has a slight grip. Not as grippy RITC 804 antispin but grippier than the Yasaka Anti Power or Butterfly Super Anti. Pros: chopping - one of the 2 main strengths of the timeless. i only know basic chopping in the backhand and can only return 2-3 successive loops in a row so i opted to let good choppers use the timeless. the first one who is my fellow coach, who is more like a 2300 US rated player, and is a well known chopper tried chopping it while being glued to an off- blade and because of the ultra slow speed of the timeless can chop looped balls well with it. It chops like an LP, low spinny chops against topspin. other players who have tried this are like 1700-1900 equivalent players and they had fun using it against players who said that has a unique effect on the ball. you need to really press on the ball towards the sponge to chop better. due to its very slow speed light brushes away from the table when chopping goes to the net. deception and variation - deception is very high. from knuckle balls to high underspin balls when chopping or blocking. the timeless antispin even has a wobble effect on the ball. maybe this is the purpose of the crisscross design weave pattern on the topsheet that it gives good variation towards incoming spin. against lower level intermediate players, this would be hard to play against with. dropshots - due to its very slow speed, dropshots are a way in the park. the hard topsheet absorbs the force on the ball coupled with the very soft sponge makes the dropsheet very controllable. blocking - both a good and bad characteristic of the rubber. its good because as what i have stated previously the hard pimples on the topsheet and the soft sponge make hard topspins easier to block. the varied effects of knuckle and diff. levels of underspin helps it very difficult to play against. Cons: price - let me be honest here. at 125 USD this is the most expensive rubber in the world and 70% of people who play table tennis cannot afford this rubber. Joola explained to me that it is due to the amount they have spent on making the rubber mold and i believe them. I saw an episode one time in the national geographic channel's megafactories: lego, that everytime they come up with a new concept on their designs they use existing metal molds for their plastic parts to produce them. each metal mold when made costs hundreds of thousands of euros. the design on the topsheet playing surface i think makes it difficult to make into a mold. fragility of the sponge - as what others have said you need choose a good blade for this or dare suffer of sponge damage when you remove it and transfer it to another blade. im using the yasaka galaxya and its an off- blade. so far so good. Other people have suggested to use a stiffer blade and I agree because it makes passive blocks a lil faster. If you dont transfer the rubber to another blade then i think this rubber will last for some time though i need to wait and see first. blocking - its both a good and a bad side of this rubber. i have difficulty with passive blocks due to the softness of the sponge and the ball returns really slow. also you have to make the bat angle a lil more open on medium power shots. its hard to do blocking with a 60-70 degree angle because it goes to the net. the solution as i have found out was to push block instead of just a passive block. Against stronger shots blocking is not a problem. Away, from the table its best at chopping. blocking with it is a bit difficult. Its too slow that instead of blocking mid distance from the table, you need to hit the ball hard for it to return properly over the net. not for beginners - i think a player who is rated at least 1700 should use this only in order to fully utilize its strength and cover its weaknesses. it takes a bit of time and skill to adjust and having the right blade angle when using this. Conclusion: a radical design and a mix of effects on an anti spin rubber. if not for its hefty price a lot of people would buy this because its a very good anti spin rubber. if you will ask me if its worth it ill just say if i have the money why not! rated as 8/10 for its performance but 6/10 for its price. |
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
Sponsored Links | ||
AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just look at that weirdness. Is it even made from rubber?
|
||
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
|
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
look forward to the review
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That should be a challenging test for your Yogi, as I didn't think you were an anti player.
|
||
roar
Silver Member Joined: 03/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Joola sponsors Amelie Sonja, who is probably the best anti-spin player in the world - and she doesn't even use this rubber. To me the debate on whether or not this is worth the price ends there.
But I'd still like to hear your thoughts. Edited by roar - 05/30/2012 at 12:44pm |
||
http://i.imgur.com/wqnxV.gif
|
||
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Looks like an Anti/pips topsheet.
How is this surface legal?? can't wait for the next gen. Edited by jt99sf - 05/30/2012 at 1:23pm |
||
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
||
liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
the topsheet of this rubber is out of this world
|
||
emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I was wondering the same thing...is this really legal? strange... |
||
Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades
|
||
jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think its a money issue, as long as they pay the fees.
|
||
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
||
roar
Silver Member Joined: 03/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
New ITTF equipment ruling: all anti-spin topsheets must meet a minimum checkered surface level of 1.1 in order to
Edited by roar - 05/30/2012 at 6:47pm |
||
http://i.imgur.com/wqnxV.gif
|
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
yes it is very hard haggisv. though i have used anti spins like ritc 804 & yasaka anti power before because i have practiced with them in order to teach people how to play against them. i may have to wait until a week to post my thoughts on this and also a video using it. to all people who are wondering if this is legal yes it legal and its on the official racket covering list of the ITTF. yes its very expensive ad its the most expensive rubber in the market now and its not even a normal inverted grippy rubber but what do we know maybe this will be start of something new to table tennis. our sport evolves from time to time with the introduction of new materials. maybe this would give rise to some other concepts in the future, we will soon know
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just a warning, this rubber is very fragile, so there is a high risk of damage if you plan to use it on more than one blade. A stiffer blades seems the most effective from the feedback I've seen.
|
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
yes its very fragile. i examined the parts of the rubber not used in the blade and its very soft! im using it in my yasaka galaxya blade off minus but medium stiffness only. dunno if this can be an attacking anti like anti-power because the pimples in the topsheet are a bit hard and doesnt deform that easily compared to normal topsheets.
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
manofan
Member Joined: 09/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I Dont Think Like that, Because there are many diferent versions of anti, maybe just dont fit the style of amys play. Amy attacks a lot and block a lot too. Looks like Timeless is a good rubber for passive block, choop block and have a good reversal. If work like that , BTY Rubbers would be sh*t to FH beacuse Z. JiKe dont use tenergy on the FH and is sponsored by bty. |
||
roar
Silver Member Joined: 03/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 658 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Poor analogy - and ZJK is using tenergy on his backhand.
|
||
http://i.imgur.com/wqnxV.gif
|
||
Nagatito
Silver Member Joined: 11/30/2011 Location: Costa Rica Status: Offline Points: 538 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
But Timo Joo and Mizutani use tenergy on FH its just that the chinese prefer chinese for FH because all of them use a kind of tenergy on BH
|
||
Blade: Timo Boll ALC
FH: T05 BH: Roundell |
||
pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The design of Joola Timeless makes sense. A smooth surface would provide more friction so a slightly uneven surface makes sense as it should reduce friction. A 1.9mm sponge should absorb lots of energy from a top spin loop. I am not about to spend $120-$130 to find out though. The fact that Timeless is fragile turns me off.
|
||
atv
Gold Member Joined: 03/18/2011 Location: Shanghai China Status: Offline Points: 1136 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
"Timeless" doesn't mean nothing when it comes to how fragile it is...
The surface looks like LGL's banned rubber only more flattened |
||
YEO
FH: 729 08 ES BH: Focus III Snipe Senkoh-1 FH: H3 Comm BH: 755 |
||
icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Reminder: Except for fanboyism, the specific equipment used by the best players in the world is almost completely irrelevant to casual and most club and league players. The best equipment for people who train thousands of hours a year may not be best for people who train 10s of hours a year. The best example of this idea is the use of low-friction LP before the ITTF's ban. These rubbers could be devastating in the US1300-1800 range of play and very useful for a range of close to the table blocking styles. However, at the world class level at that time, the use of low-friction LP was almost nonexistent. The lack of professionals using low-friction LP meant little to the players who got the best match results from those rubbers. Companies like Dr. Neubauer and Hallmark made loads of money from the casual to club players where they found the most traction/sales/use. Similarly, Timeless may suit a range of players who are not world class. And these less than professional players make up the bulk of people who actually pay for rubber. |
||
manofan
Member Joined: 09/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thats the Point, He Compared the best in the world with anti , Timo and Jun isent the Best hahahha And i said just like that, she dont like it, dosent mean that isnt good. And why poor analogy, if i said FH and not BH, he uses it as back hand so its just good for backhand? Both of you prove my argument with the same thing as i said... |
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
updated with review
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
where's the review yogi? Looking forward to reading your review. It also sounds like you better put it on a blade you're going to stick with or else you will probably damage the rubber when removing it.
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
my bad yogi...I guess you just updated your original post. Thanks
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
yup! that's my point in my review and also other people in the forum who have tested it. it would last for some time if you don't remove it from that blade you have originally glued it into.
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
very nice review Yogi, thanks for the closeup shots of the x topsheet design, very unconventional and radical indeed.
|
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
liulin, thanks. if only i can remove it from my blade without damaging the sponge i would be willing to share it to other members of the forum for testing
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yogi...maybe you can just send the blade with the rubber to other players for testing. I have about 5 players at our club that use anti and they are 1900 - 2200. 2 of them are choppers/loopers, and 2 of them are close to the table blockers/hitters. Is the rubber better suited for chopping, or would it work well for blockers too?
Thanks
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What's interesting to me is that waffle pattern.
I wonder if the original mold was for an inverted attacking rubber and then further testing yielded less than optimal results (resulting in the re-use of the mold as that for an anti rubber). I am speculating because one of the most noticeable "failures" of modern rubbers is to duplicate the way that the topsheet seems to "suck inward toward the blade" along the pimple spacing on a boosted or speed glued sheet. I'm guessing that the mechanism of this physical change assume that the visible pattern allows less surface area contact on brushes (and greater overall friction?) while allowing greater surface area contact on harder hits (less spin sensitivity)? If I understand the physics at play well enough, it would make sense why those same properties would be desirable for Anti play as well. Here's an example of a tuned rubber (for the visible pips): |
||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
i have removed the timeless successfully in my blade. i used wbg for the timeless even though i hated it because rubber cement in this situation would be harder to remove in the sponge. i dont think i can send it in the states since a lot of players here are interested in the timeless. its a bit difficult to block at first but when you get the hang of blocking with it it really disturbs your opponents timing especially when there is a rally and u suddenly block with it and the ball goes really slow with wobbling effects. also when u block with the timeless its gives you an opening to counter once the ball comes back. it chops really well though its easier to develop your chops in the timeless than blocking with it but if you master both its difficult to play against with icontek, i have yet to understand the science of this anti. joola told me that their purpose was to create some sort of hybrid effect for the timeless (with anti spin and long pips effect)
|
||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
thanks for the info yogi. Have you tried Nightmare? I've been reading some good things about that rubber.
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |