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Appropriate Pairing of Rubbers with Blades |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Posted: 01/31/2013 at 11:25pm |
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There seems to be mixed opinions and experiences regarding how to pair inverted rubbers properly with a blade. Can someone lists what the setups below are or are not appropriate for? The first 2 characteristics describe the blade. Thanks.
For grippy, non-tensor, non-speedglue-effect rubbers:
For grippy tensors or speedglue-effect rubbers:
For tacky rubbers:
Edited by racquetsforsale - 01/31/2013 at 11:26pm |
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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There's no appropriate or inappropriate pairing, such notions are only for EJ's. Just use whatever suits your game.
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Even one and the same combination may produce different results - depending on the batch, glue, even temperature. TT alchemy...
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Anderni
Super Member Joined: 08/23/2012 Status: Offline Points: 399 |
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from the palio.co website
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j-bo
Super Member Joined: 03/23/2012 Location: Louisiana Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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I'm very thankful that I don't understand a word of any of this.
I don't know what my blade is. Donic Epox Powerallround teamed with bluefire m2 and m3 at 2.0. It works for me AFAIK, but I'm low rated player. |
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Loop40mm
Super Member Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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Pairing is a personal thing and there is no right or wrong answer. I know two players with rating of around 2200. Both use Primorac Carbon. One uses hard Hurricane 3 and the other likes any soft rubbers. |
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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
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There's other factors such as the weight of the blade.
A 92 gm TBS will play very differently than an 85 gm one using the same rubbers.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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jatienza930
Super Member Joined: 02/10/2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 356 |
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There is really no right or wrong combinations of blades and rubbers. You must determine what feels right and plays well for you
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BTY TBS FL
T05 T64 My Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56638&KW=jen&title=jatienza930-buy-sell-feedback |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Based on the responses so far, can it then be said that most if not all the discussions and recommendations on this forum regarding what rubber to pair with what blade for which style and the like are essentially invalid and pointless?
Say someone is seeking advice for a setup. He's 1500 and prefers to loop far away from the table and the setup he has in mind is a soft, stiff blade paired with hard, untuned Globe 999. Or someone at the same level who plays close to the table, prefers to dictate with his short game, and the setup he has in mind is a hard, stiff blade with a tensor. No one who's responded so far would think those are probably not (not "definitely not" because there are exceptions) appropriate setups for the respective applications and recommend something different? |
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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What you say here is in keeping with the responses. You use what suits your game. There is no blanket right or wrong pairing independent of the player.
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Those are both very inappropriate setups in my experience the first one is especailly bad, yes you can play with them and it probably makes not much difference if you are an elite player. For the 1500 level guys that will be a big deal, bad deal in both cases. I would build the first guy a hard flexible blade for the globe 999. The second guy shouldn't be using a tensor, assuming he wont move on that. I'd build a stiff medium hardness blade for his tensor. These seem obvious setups to me
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The Japanese magazine 卓球王国 has just the right info EJs and non-EJs alike here may deem useful.
Put in a nutshell, there are four basic categories of setup - Spin, Speed, Control and Sound. Each category is broken down into two further groups, which are made up of combinations of blades and rubbers of varying stiffness and hardness. For speedy setups, the respective groups are smashers under the "initial velocity faction" and drivers under the "acceleration faction". The former aims for one-shot winners and wants the ball to launch as early as possible whereas the latter looks to sustained rallies and favors the catapult effect. For flat-hitters, the transient resilience of a blade upon impact is a matter between winning and losing. As for drivers, a blade with a certain amount of flex is necessary for the proper blend of speed and spin. The best way to achieve those goals is with a combination of stiff blade and hard rubber and a combination of flexible blade and hard rubber, respectively. When it comes to spinny setups, there are the "bite" camp and the "brush" camp. The former usually has trouble with touchshots and is more suited for mid-range to away-from-table play. Soft sponge rubber in theory bites into the ball more readily, however, power loopers may run into the scenario where the increased bite leads to a decrease of power[bottoming out]. Choose a soft rubber of moderate hardness to pair up with a bouncy blade to strike a balance between attack and defense. On the other hand, the latter has excellent touch and performs best close to the table. Use either tacky rubbers or highly elastic tensioned rubbers with high friction topsheets and relatively hard sponges on blades with modest bounce to achieve higher dwell time. There are two kinds of players who value controlled setups - those who emphasize on attacking with drives or smashes, and those more inclined toward defending with chops or blocks, and yet the skill level of both are not solid enough. Allround blades with mild flex and modest bounce are desirable for the former as those help to compensate for the lack of consistency, but in which case stiff and highly resilient blades are out of the picture. To make up for the lack of firepower, the use of highly elastic rubbers is within reason, but only limited to the soft and thin. Then again, blades that fit seamlessly into one's own game are far more important for the latter as those tend to put the players' minds at rest, but that does not necessarily mean just low-bounce blades. As defense is the mainstay of this style, there is no reason to use bouncy rubbers. Last but not least, loud setups. The fascinating sound associated with gluing is long gone ever since the ban of speedglue, leaving many dismayed. The latest wave of rubbers, however, crank it up to a level close to that of glue era which, when coupled with the right blades replicate that lovely sound. On the rubber side, we have those who have a nostalgia for gluing, who yearn for the unsurpassed touch and who are obsessed with the metallic sound. On the blade side, there are those who welcome the "go green" propaganda, who turn instead to the blades for that feel, and who seek that peculiar change in tone. For rubber junkies, the German Tensor is second to nothing in reproducing the so-called "metallic sound" when glued without tuners which, when paired with stiff blades increases in intensity. In particular, carbon blades with fiber layers placed closed to the top ply are recommended to take full advantage of the "cork" sound. For blade junkies, composite blades by many manufacturers are too good to pass up. Also try out blades of different composition. And for those who love the changing sounds blades make upon impact, by all means go for thin and soft rubbers. And some final checkpoints - how to get the ideal "feel" Rubber-wise: Topsheet Sponge Speed Spin variation Hard + hard ...... Excellent / Weak Hard + soft ...... Excellent / Satisfactory Soft + hard ...... Satisfactory / Excellent Soft + soft ...... Weak / Excellent Blade-wise: Properties of Wood and Composite Material Too many to list, check with the catalog descriptions Placement of fiber layers The closer they are to the top plies the heavier their influence on the feel Number of ply The more the bouncier and the stiffer the feel Overall thickness The thicker, the higher the bounce and the faster the vibration in the hand dies down |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Wow, that's pure metaphysics in its best transcendental application.
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Thanks, zeio!
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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lol - too true!
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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Are you sure this isnt just designed for EJ's? It sure looks like it! What type of game does it say is suitable for a soft flexible ALL blade with soft-sponge medium-grippy rubber?
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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For the basement game. And no one would expect that to take up the precious space in the most prestigious table tennis magazine in Japan. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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Oh dear - that's the set-up I have used for 20 years.
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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BTY Grubba Pro (soft flexible ALL blade) + 2 x Evolution FX-P (soft-sponged medium-grippy) is a very professional combination to me. |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I think any list of setups recommendations means nothing compared to my own experiences.
I´ve tried a lot of blades and rubbers to find the best for me. Now I play with a combo that, maybe, cannot be found in any list. I use a Speed 90 with SP in the forehand and non tension rubber in the back.
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BH-Man
Premier Member Joined: 02/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5042 |
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Very Interesting Zeio !!!
As to the pundits...
I can only Laugh My Azz Off On the Floor Rolling (LMAOROTF or ROTFLMAO) when I se apundit state that the reason behind player missing shot is his gear is too fast or sponge is too thick.
Give me a break. If sponge is too thin, you cannot loop with consistancy and spin, period.
(Although I concede to the old-school Short Pip J-Pen crowd that light spin is DECEPTIVE !!!
I cannot in good conscience say the reason behind an inexperienced player missing a shot is because his gear is too fast. The gear has NOTHING to do (or damed little) if the player fails to read spin, is in WRONG poition, or is reaching for ball.
Gear has zero to do with that stuff. MANY players have not enough training and experiece to play at their level or that above, that has the more relevence to their problems.
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Hmm...let me put it this way. By basement game, I meant what's in the video below: It shouldn't be too hard to notice quite a few players in that video have either basement techniques - be they form, stroke, footwork, and timing, or basement tactics - mainly capitalizing on opponents' mistakes through variation, or both, but surprisingly over the years they have honed their feel enough to turn their unorthodox style into quite a formidable weapon even against players with proper training. Ultimately, most if not all of their setups come from a select few renowned manufacturers. From that standpoint, there is not a clear line separating what's professional and what's not. By the same token, basement games are not necessarily inferior. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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So I gather a say 2400 orthodox power looper would not choose to use a soft-flexible ALL blade with soft medium-grippy rubber?
Edited by DDreamer - 02/02/2013 at 5:27pm |
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Half the players in your video would beat the majority on this forum and easily. They are decent players
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DDreamer
Silver Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 668 |
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Perhaps, but they wouldn't beat the ones with the correct officially sanctioned rubber/blade pairings.
Edited by DDreamer - 02/02/2013 at 6:01pm |
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I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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chopchopslam
Silver Member Joined: 09/28/2011 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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If those are basement players, then I belong in the crawlspace.
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80 National Team Pogo LP .6mm |
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chopchopslam
Silver Member Joined: 09/28/2011 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 703 |
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Also, I've used hard/stiff with soft rubbers... no problem at all. You can adapt to any combo, it's just finding the one that suits your game best that is the trick. Now I am using a flexible blade with medium-hard rubber and that also works fine. (better than the other setup I think)
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Butterfly Grubba Pro
Tenergy 80 National Team Pogo LP .6mm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Not very likely, at least not at the top of the list of options. If you check out the paragraphs for speedy and spinny setups, and then the "ideal feel checkpoints" for soft topsheet plus soft sponge, your given setup is considered too mushy for a power-looper game. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Nice basement. Like very much the serene atmosphere.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Decent players by the overall standard of this forum maybe, but not in the eyes of ambitious players in Asia. Below is a match between Hung Ka Tak, current World U15's no.3, and former CNT first-string member as well as former singles, doubles and teams gold medalist at the World Youth Games. Compare that to the current local top 30s and top 60s. It turned out the higher the gap in ranking the better the results. What gives? If playing skill is the dictating factor, there is no way that would have happened. p.s. fixed last link Edited by zeio - 02/03/2013 at 5:38am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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