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2200 Final Show-Me State Games |
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pongfan
Member Joined: 12/03/2010 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Posted: 06/22/2013 at 12:32am |
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2200 Final Show-Me State Games Table Tennis
Another of my video productions from the recent Show-Me State Games Table Tennis Tournament. Thanks for watching! |
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Timo Boll ZLF
T05 Sriver Fx |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Finally, a looper who knows how to drive the ball HARD. Also shows the power of the backhand loop when compared to the other looper, who took almost everything with his forehand.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/22/2013 at 8:43am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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nachalnik
Super Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 241 |
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Does anybody know what kind of equipment the second-place guy uses?
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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A little off topic: but where did you get those barriers? Seems very convenient.
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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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I have no idea who either of these people are and I'm not sure of what they are using but the guy who lost's backhand rubber is probably something like tackiness chop or reflectoid. Great at pushing, chopping, and blocking but terrible for attack. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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After watching this video, I'm glad the bigger guy won. I like his forehand and his determination.
The other guy blocks extremely well but I dislike his otherwise passive style. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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This thread should be linked with the other PongFan thread, IMO.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I am citing pongfan here - from another thread: P.S. Last time I checked the blocker uses Donic Acuda S3 on his backhand and Tenergy 64 on his forehand. He had Tenergy on both sides for awhile also. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Why on earth would he be using Acuda or Tenergy on his backhand for that style? It makes absolutely ZERO sense. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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pongfan
Member Joined: 12/03/2010 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Hey! They do the job, don't they? The barriers are a creation of our club's president. If you are still curious, continue reading. The 4' x 8' sheets of corrugated cardboard from the local paper company had to trimmed with a table saw so that they were the proper height. Then small strips of wood forming a rectangle are sandwhiched between two pieces of cardboard and stapled to provide rigidity. The red tape covers the staples and make the barriers fit snugly into the feet. The feet are constructed from 2 x 4 lumber on a circle of plywood and have a layer of foam attached to protect the gym floor.
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Timo Boll ZLF
T05 Sriver Fx |
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pongfan
Member Joined: 12/03/2010 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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I love the snappy "windshield wiper" backhand! Also, trying to learn the snappy double action reverse pendulum serves.
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Timo Boll ZLF
T05 Sriver Fx |
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bogeyhunter
Gold Member Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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What's the attacker's name? I might have played him before.
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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nachalnik
Super Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 241 |
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I would think he might be more effective with LPs
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DeIgado
Silver Member Joined: 07/14/2010 Location: Rockin the USA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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His name is Everton. I played him in Ohio last year and he beat me (I beat myself really) but I'm glad he beat this blocker. It's so painful to watch this blocker play.
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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising |
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chunyenliu
Super Member Joined: 11/25/2010 Location: Kansas, USA Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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I was at this tournament also.
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My free Android app: "Table Tennis Time" at Google
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bogeyhunter
Gold Member Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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I Love watching this blocker. Good touch and smart. I played everton before. |
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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DeIgado
Silver Member Joined: 07/14/2010 Location: Rockin the USA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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He does have good touch but when I watch him play I just think he is stuck at that level and won't get any better. He doesn't move, in these videos he never opens with an attack which is not good at higher levels. His only source of winning points is off of blocks. He can hit a winner if he blocks well enough but against a better player (2200+) 1-2 loops and he will lose the point. Sure he might occasionally beat higher rated players based on consistency, but there is a reason he is still under 2100. Much like with the pushblocker, there is a skill ceiling for these styles.
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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Delgado,
You need to see him play a lot of opponents at various levels to defend the conclusions you have arrived at. In many way, Richard pushes the ball more than he blocks. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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You are forgetting one simple thing - there is always a ceiling. For instance, we have a guy who plays at 2100 level, likes his game, likes his style, has fun playing, is NOT a semi-professional player or a crazy amateur who spends all his days and nights thinking about his rating. The only way he (probably) could really improve his level and rating is to break his style, change his whole attitude, get himself a personal coach, and spend enormous amount of time at the club (and a lot of money). Then he might (only might!) become much better and reach 2300 (which, let's say, is his celing anyway because he is never going to get above that due to his age, physique, etc.). So what's the point then? I am pretty sure he would prefer to stay at 2100, have fun, have lots of time to spend at his job, with his family etc etc. Here is actually an example for you of a guy who used to play at a club pretty close to my house - in Rhode Island. He was 2200 level player around 2008, one of the best amateur players in New England, when he (around age of 40) decided he wanted more. He quit his day job, he moved to Maryland, trained in Sweden and Romania (which naturally required considerable expenses on his part), trained every day at Maryland JOOLA club... and his rating went to 2100, around which mark it continues to oscillate to this day, five (5!) years later. I am sure he has a lot of fun though, he is a very positive guy. My point is just that he never even achieved his minimum goal - to increase his rating. Despite the fact that he played a lot of tournaments, stayed in shape, practiced like crazy, he apparently has reached his celing even before he made that life altering decision. I am pretty sure that if I quit my job, abandoned my family, seriously practiced with coaching, got myself in much better physical shape, lost 20 more pounds, fixed my knees, my shoulder and my elbow then I would be able to reach, say, 2200 level (if miracle happened, maybe even 2300, who knows... although that is utterly unlikely even within that crazy scenario) but would I do that even if I could? I am not sure I would want to... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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DeIgado
Silver Member Joined: 07/14/2010 Location: Rockin the USA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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I am not trying to attack him nor put him down, just stating reasons why I think he is stuck at u2100. I'm not saying he could never pass that rating, just that with his current style, it may be difficult. Much like mr. pushblocker, who has been learning to attack more because he wants to become a better player. This Richard character could learn to do the same.
Ok, well, I have seen him play against 2 loopers and one older guy who plays much more compact. He pushes more than he blocks, I feel like that is common sense. But he doesn't win as many points on his push as he does his blocks. He pushes in order to block much like I will push in order to counter loop or receive a comfortably loopable push. I win points based on looping he wins points based on blocking. I am not rushing to conclusions I am just stating what I see. Once again, I am not trying to attack him or be offensive, some people are tickled pink to be around 2100. Others (like myself) have higher goals.
Edited by DeIgado - 06/23/2013 at 8:26pm |
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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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The Push-Blocker is becoming a viable alternative for some amateurs to reach a higher rating level. They do have to sacrifice some style ego. It is a personal choice and usually requires less practice to maintain their level.
Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 06/23/2013 at 11:49pm |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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I wouldn't say it's easy. It just needs a lot less athletism. You need a lot of match experience to read your opponent, the spin, pace and trajectory of the ball, and then on top that great touch to make those blocks. This is talent actually, just like learning how to generate power and spin in looping. Not everyone have that talent... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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You've seen him play a 2200+ looper, a 2000+ looper and one other person. You've not seen him play lower rated players or players with long pips. One thing to note was that he beat a hardbat player who beat the 2000 looper that beat him in the opening video. My point is that you know little about his game and you've seen it mostly against a single style going by what you wrote. As JimT pointed out, every style has limitations. But there is no reason why with his quality of blocking, he cannot become a higher rated player with a good counterhit/smash against varieties of topspin. There are few styles that can't hit 2400. Blocking/hitting is not one of those styles. That it is easiest to become a good player by looping doesn't mean that limits are low for other styles when you are not thinking "World Class". Remember that the limitations of a style revolve around serve, return, thirdball and fourth ball, not around rallying per se.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/24/2013 at 12:38am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Delgado,
By the way, I'm fairly sure you are relatively young if not very much so. It is usually youth that bolsters such ambitions. Don't however be surprised if you don't get much higher than the blocker's rating after years of practice.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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DeIgado
Silver Member Joined: 07/14/2010 Location: Rockin the USA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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After 4 years of self learning I hit 2025. I have just recently started actually training. To put things in perspective, I lost to Everton (~2100) and his teammate Yuvi (~2300) in the thanksgiving teams. In the most recent college tournament I played Yuvi again and beat him. Whats all this noise about not being better than this guy who has no 3rd ball, no serve return, and just a decent block? If this guy wanted to get any better than he is he would have to learn how to attack, thus, not blocking. I don't give a shit what he does against lower rated players because beating lower rated players doesn't mean anything. I can beat sub 1800 rated players playing penhold but it doesn't mean I can do the same to players over 2100. Once again, I wasn't trying to be offensive to this Richard character, just state what I see when he plays against higher rated players and how he can break 2100.
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Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx
2059 and rising |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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I knew one guy who played a push-blocker style maintaining 2000-2100 for several years. He never practiced and played 1-2 times a month most of the year, except would play more right before a tournament. He used LP OX and inverted. He had really nasty serves which would keep him in any game at his level. He usually only hit if the ball was a pop up. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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To exploit the power loops of his opponent. It is not a rare thing here to see a pushblocker using Andro Treiber K and 2xTibhar Genius.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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His two wins over the 2200 looper already helped him break 2100. Everton was his only loss, and Everton made a huge come back. How do you know he doesn't know how to attack? Usually, coming back from a 0-2 deficit to win 3-2 means that one person made an adjustment and the other person was unable to counter it. Larry Hodges can play 2100 level with a clipboard chopping. Sometimes, the limitations are about the player, not the equipment or style. I have no doubt Richard can attack - the problem is that loopers sometimes believe that if an attack isn't the kind of attack that a looper would prefer, it is not an attack. That is what I am trying to get you out of. Hitters/blockers set people up differently.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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By the way, breaking 2025 in 4 years is good talent. So I can understand the prescription but again, it is too looper centric. Most people would say that you can't even break 2000 without an attack, but the bottom line is that the game is more about consistency, spin, power, speed, placement and the looping style is the easiest way to get all these without losing much. So people like Pushblocker or Richard are just proof that that at lower levels, it is possible to go your own way and get all these things, the problem being that you will find it harder to get good teachers.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/24/2013 at 8:03am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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I would be interested in seeing how he plays against players that don't try to loop everything. Does he play the same style or does he attack more? Perhaps this is his strategy against loopers because he finds it to be more effective - different strategies against different opponents.
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