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How do you read Blade/Rubber Ratings! |
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Posted: 07/02/2013 at 4:50pm |
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I find myself lost in the manufacturer’s ratings. I can’t get a sense/feel on how to compare my previous setup and build a new one...it’s extremely frustrating!
So, I have created an Excel spreadsheet with data from Paddle Palace (manufacturer ratings) and MyTableTennisDB (user ratings) and tried to combine the two to create something which would make more sense. However, user ratings do not always match manufacturer ratings if you sort data...which lead to the following questions: Loved it, but became too slow and less spiny overtime due to me not taking care of the paddle by cleaning it and covering it.. also the oversize aspect took a lot of time to get used to it… I used it for 5 years. TOO FAST!! Oh my god! What a mistake, I could not tame it… I used it for 2 years. More controllable than previous setup, but still little bit fast… I took care of this one a bit more…however, the blade has a blue sponge that shrunk overtime and now the blade doesn’t feel good after an hour of use.. I used it for 1.5 years. N2) [Still Expensive] Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+ with 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky on FH and BH N3) [Less Expensive] Stiga Allround NCT with 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky on FH and BH N4) [Nice Price] Gambler Arylate Carbon with 2.15 Friendship Super 729 FX on FH and BH N5) [Cheap] Friendship/729 Bomb with 2.1 RITC 729 Focus 3 Snipe on FH and BH Edited by lucidgold - 07/03/2013 at 12:49pm |
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decoi
Gold Member Joined: 09/25/2011 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1375 |
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manufaturer ratings are rather useless,. user ratings are better but when talkign about numbers you have to haev somethign to compare to which doesnt happen on ttDB. but the best way to rate an item is to talk about it describig how you play and how the rubber plays for you.. numbers such as use provided ones on ttdb are almost meaning less
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Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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I wouldn't put a lot of weight on manufacturer's ratings. They are trying to sell rubber, not provide accurate data.
The charts on Paddle Palace don't use manufacturer's ratings. They are estimates by the Paddle Palace players. I have asked about this. About last year Paddle Palace re-scaled their ratings because newer and faster rubber were coming out. [quote 1) How do manufacturer rate rubber/blade? I would guess that they rate rubber and blade individually using some robots/physics….?[/quote] No physics. A physics person would rate paddles much differently.
You are right. What is important is what works for you.
Yes, but everyone has different blades.
Tackiness alone does not affect the spin much. It may actually reduce spin because the of the force required to break the tackiness. Tackiness does affect how thinly you can brush the ball and not have the ball slip on the paddle.
Maybe, maybe not. Remember that you lose a little spin or speed breaking the friction from the tackiness. Your serve technique will be more important. |
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mrdoodzki
Gold Member Joined: 06/10/2011 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1279 |
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ive never trusted ratings in tabletennisdb or the numbers that the manufacturers give. that's why the tt forum is very useful. i value the opinion of a fellow tt player more. i do go regularly to tabletennisdb but i dont look at the ratings/numbers, i scroll down directly to the equipment's comments...
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Blade -- Stiga Clipper
FH -- DHS Hurricane 3 BH -- Japtec Experience HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball |
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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I really appreciate all the comments. mrdoodzki, I totally agree with you! I eagerly refresh the screen waiting for fellow tt players to respond to my post, I have been reading this forum for years, and I must say because everyone here is totally awesome. I have won tournaments because I read and applied a lot of the tips here...
The reason why im so "obsessed" with ratings and I now know I shouldn't is because we don't have a tt club here in Las Cruces, NM, which means I don't get a chance to try different types of rubbers/blades. So I do my best to read and look at ratings to make sense of how my next setup could be... So, in my initial post I asked if members of this form can rank the following setups in order of speed/spin? N1) [Expensive] Butterfly Primorac with with 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky on FH and BH N2) [Still Expensive] Butterfly Timo Boll ALL+ with 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky on FH and BH N3) [Less Expensive] Stiga Allround NCT with 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky on FH and BH N4) [Nice Price] Gambler Arylate Carbon with 2.15 Friendship Super 729 FX on FH and BH N5) [Cheap] Friendship/729 Bomb with 2.1 RITC 729 Focus 3 Snipe on FH and BH After looking at the setups above, which setup would be slightly slower and spinner than the following: Tibhar Samsonove Alpha SGS with Tibhar Nimbus Sound 1.8 on FH and BH
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qpskfec
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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I would try slower rubbers on your current blade first. The chinese ones are cheap to try.
Btw, I still have a stiga prestige wrb premade that is over ten years old. I put hardbat rubber on it for fun. |
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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You are right. You should NOT be obsessed with rubber or blade ratings.
I doubt anyone has the same combinations as you posted below so you won't get much of an answer.
Your suggestions seem to be varied. If we don't know you you play then our suggestions are meaningless. Suggesting a paddle with more spin and speed may not be the right answer.
What is wrong with what you have? If you want slower and spinnier then the Gambler Arylate Carbon with H3 or Geospin tacky on the FH and Focus 3 snipe on the back hand should be good. The Gambler Arylate Carbon is not a fast blade for a carbon type of blade. The 729 bomb is not a slow blade. It is good for hitting with SP and playing push blocker mode with LPs. I think of the 729 Bomb as a much cheaper version of the Butterfly BCX5. I gave away my 729 bomb and I still have my Gambler Arylate Carbon with Aces Pro and 4 Kings Pro. It is the first Chinese paddle I bought and I never modified it. The rubbers are old but still in good condition. Edited by tt4me - 07/03/2013 at 12:28am |
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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OMG!
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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The OMG is in reference to which post?
I think this is all a waste of time until the forum really wants to get serious but I have seen no indications of that. |
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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I don't believe I am a beginner, as I do understand spin and the dynamics of the game. I have played in a total of 8 tournaments thus far, including ACUI regional competitions. I have won 3 of them and consistently placed top 5 in the rest. I do not have a USATT rating however. I love to play a controlled game which allows me to place the ball in awkward positions to make it difficult for my opponent. I like to step back and block shots because it makes the game more fun. I am also infatuated by serves, in which I think too much and sometimes I over do it, I love to create difficult serves, I don't like them returned. I love to put spin on every shot.
I don't like my current setup of Tibhar Samsonove Alpha SGS with Tibhar Nimbus Sound 1.8 on FH and BH because I believe its a bit too fast. I have also ruined the blade and made it uncomfortable to use for more than 1 hour because the blue "sponge" on the handle has shrunk. Thus I need a new setup. I hope this answers some of your questions |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Please go and find your stiga allround oversize. Its one of the best blades of all time. Once you find it we can talk new rubbers
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Found it! What can we add to it? From my experiance, Mendo lost its spin a lot sooner than Magna. At this stage, I belieave Mendo might be a bit slow. Magna had a lot more spin than Mendo and was a bit faster. It my seem that I could use Stiga Allround Oversize + my Tibhar Nimbus Sound? Althogh felow TT members suggested I use a slower rubber... Mark V and Sriver might be similar to Magna with less spin, correct? Edited by lucidgold - 07/03/2013 at 11:05am |
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Rahul_TT
Super Member Joined: 11/06/2012 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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mendo is similar to sriver and mark v
i think mark v is just a bit more spinnier than both. mendo is just a bit faster than markv.
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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It is the first thing in the thread title. Who starts a boring thread with OMG. What are you, a female teenager at the concert of Justin Bieber? Let me guess, you also say it every time you lose a point! Am I in the ball park?
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Is is the you you are referring too? You really need to be more specific. I didn't post OMG. I don't put much weight on equipment ratings because they are marketing hype. Edited by tt4me - 07/03/2013 at 12:45pm |
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Rahul_TT
Super Member Joined: 11/06/2012 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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I think by now we all know we need to ignore assiduous
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Whang
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2012 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 550 |
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How do you read ratings? You don't.. better to just look up qualitative feedback from players that have used the equipment in question and get a general consensus
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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davidwhang: I think your setup could work for me?
Can anyone compare:
Setup A:
Yasaka Gatien Extra with DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) on FH and 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) on BH
VS.
Setup B: Tibhar Samsonove Alpha SGS with Tibhar Nimbus Sound 1.8 on FH and BH
I belieave Setup A will have more spin (becuase of DHS H3Neo) and control than Setup B.
Does anyone agree?
Edited by lucidgold - 07/03/2013 at 5:46pm |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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It depends on your level what rubbers you would put on the allround oversize. Mark v and sriver are fine, they won't be as fast as a tensor but they are still more than fast enough.
If you were us2000+ you could smack some hexer HD on the blade and be happy. If I were you or me (I'm just over us2000) I'd use mark v or sriver el on the bh and whatever is your favourite fh rubber on the fh. They point is those allround oversize are a very good blade, probably the best blade stiga has made in the modern era (unless you are a pro player and need a pro type blade). For everyone else its about as good as stiga have done since the 80s The yasaka extra is a good blade too but you already have a fine blade there so why buy another |
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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What about Stiga Allround NCT with 1.8 Neos Tacky on FH & BH? Would that be slower than Stiga Allround Oversize with 1.8 Mark V on FH/BH?
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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I would guess apart from being a different shape the allround nct is the same blade as the allround oversize and the same speed. Ive never used neos tacky
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decoi
Gold Member Joined: 09/25/2011 Location: Dublin, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1375 |
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that used to be my setup when i was younger close to the table chops and decent Fh topspin ability.. but more suited fora defensive player
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Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao
FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
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Slade
Super Member Joined: 08/15/2009 Location: Portland, OR Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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The Allround NCT is slightly more compact even than a regular blade, which is already smaller than Allround Oversize, so careful there. My guess for a Stiga blade would be Allround Evolution for something a little faster, or Allround Classic either keep your oversize if you like that that or get the regular (non-WRB) version (which doesn't seem all that "slow" to me personally). Extra is also fine, as is Gambler AC (though dull feeling, probably just stick to all wood instead for awhile..) There isn't really any consensus on the best one or two ALL blades at all.
FH: Try 999 Elite (either SV or Ultima version, either is medium soft). Hybrid rubber.. tacky, but still plays pretty mechanical (you have to hit into the sponge like you are used to). BH: Stick to something boring here. Not tacky, not fast. |
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USATT 1700 ··· 11/02/2013 ◄ ПЕШ
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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Someone has caught the EJ bug...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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I've got both the allround oversize and standard allround classic. The oversize is thicker, bigger and quite a bit faster its an all+ class blade. The allround classic is a good blade but it is slightly lacking in power for an offensive player, the oversize isn't.
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lucidgold
Member Joined: 02/27/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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decoi: Which setup? Neos Tacky + Stiga Allround NCT?
Slade: I appreciate the details you provided. What is your current setup if you don’t mind me asking? What kind of blade do you use?
NextLevel: What is the EJ bug?
Possible blades: Which one is the fastest? Is it Primorac? -Stiga Allround NCT rubbers: Which one is the fastest? Is it Mark V? -Yasaka Mark V @ 1.5 Some of my friends who have a USATT rating believe that I play at ~1600 level. So with that in mind, what do you guys recommend? I believe my current setups is a bit fast… Can you help me simplify the list above? Edited by lucidgold - 07/05/2013 at 3:24pm |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Yes Primorac -off is the probably the fastest of those blades. I've only used Mark V and Hurricane 3 from the rubbers you listed and which of those is faster is debatable and depends on the way you play, neither are slow or fast. A friend of mine uses a Primorac with TG3 FH and a similar rubber to Mark V on the backhand and it's a nice combo, it did take a while for the blade to loosen up and develop a good feel which is normal for a limba 5 ply. It wont feel really nice for maybe a year. He's been playing for 3 years or so and is currently around US1700-1800 level. He's actually still using his original sheet of TG3 after 3 years !.
I would still choose the allround oversize above the primorac -off *just*. If you changed H3 to TG3 and used that on the fh and and 1.5 mark V on the bh on either of those blades. I'm sure you would be happy with it. H3 is not a good rubber compared to Tg3 so forget the H3
Edited by bluebucket - 07/05/2013 at 5:32pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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The EJ bug is when someone wants to change equipment even when the change is unlikely to be necessary or to make his game better. You have a good blade(s) already. You can get better rubbers or stick with the same equipment.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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gatorling
Super Member Joined: 06/09/2010 Location: Florida, USA Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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If you are a beginner I strongly recommend the following setup.
IQUL is a softer sponge slightly tacky rubber. Instinct has good feel and is a slower blade. LKT Instinct Inspirit Quattro UltraLight FH and BH. This is the setup that me and my training partner learned all the basic techniques with. It is a versatile combo and can easily get you to the 1500-1600 rating. If I had to do it all over again, had access to good coaching (Chinese style) I think I would do something like Yasaka Extra FH: Hurricane 3 regular, no boosting. BH: Inspirit Quattro Ultralight or a softer euro type rubber like Sriver or Mark V. Blade and rubber ratings are somewhat uselss. It really depends a lot on your technique and the rubber/blade combo. For instance, certain rubbers feel like garbage on certain blades but then put them on a different blade and it's heaven. If you're a developing player, stick with something slower. Up to 1800 I think consistency and control trump power. I know a 1700-1800 player who wins plenty of games by fishing balls back over and over again. Most 1500-1700 players who play him end up losing points due to unforced errors rather than him blowing shots past them. |
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Forehand: Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 sponge
Backhand: Rakza 7 Max Blade: Xiom Aria |
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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(1) Of course, in-depth reviews by good, experienced fellow players are a most valuable rating tool. Yes, rubbers' performance will depend on the blade, blade's performance will depend on the rubbers attached, and all this will depend on the technique and style...
(2) However, some companies do provide equipment ratings that are quite helpful, and reliable. XIOM for one... IMO, they are excellent in their equipment descriptions. And for most of the others, we cannot say that all the company provided info is garbage. Also, I have used Paddle Palace ratings and agree most of the time with them. I also use the ratings at tabletennisstore.us. (One piece of info I am still missing in catalogs is area/weight (specific weight) report for rubbers) A reasonable combination of all the data from various sources usually is very helpful. Eventually, a well described set of mechano-kinetic tests might be selected as a standard for equipment testing. Maybe it will eventually happen?
Edited by JacekGM - 07/06/2013 at 9:50am |
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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