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Plastic balls delayed? |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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May have to switch to a faster blade...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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During my last two outings to local clubs I have introduced players to the Xushaofa balls from ttnpp. So far I've had the following players try it out:
2000+ two wing looper (liked it fine) 2000+ two wing looper (didn't give it much of a chance) 1700 up and coming junior (liked it) 1500 (estimated) offensive player (did not like it) 1400 offensive player (thought it was fine) It's mostly being positively received. My own opinion is that it: 1) feels harder during play 2) is noticeably bigger both visually during play and when holding in your hand 3) is easier to track visually during rallying (which would follow from a larger, slower ball) 4) is more difficult to serve with the same amount of spin 5) seems bouncier in the short game 6) is very durable (I blocked for one of the 2000+ players and he hit it hard over and over... so far no breakage) 7) does not sound cracked As a side note, I like the tube that comes with these. To be continued...
Edited by the_theologian - 04/02/2014 at 11:55pm |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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I tried the xushaofa ball.
harder, slower, less spin. Easier to play. You can compensate with softer rubbers to a good extent, to recover the dwell and some of the spin. But some spin is lost forever. The main difference is strategic. Now you cannot be aggressive from close to table (or, more precisely, you can but it's not worth it. You miss one, and the other comes back). To play a power loop, you have to take a step back. As a consequence, it is much easier to receive: if your receive is not too long, the opponent will not kill. He will loop but you will be able to counter it. |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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To be honest I think the only drawback from the new ball will be the price. Most people in the clubs are not athletes and play for fun and this ball is just easier for everybody to play. I can see how the reliance on kill-shots will decrease. You will need to use strategy to get a point, you cant just drill one right in the middle of the table and get away with it. You will need better placement and combinations to get your opponent to open the table enough. I am a little excited actually. I think the rallies are gona become much more interesting now.
Another side effect - the nastyness of illegal serves is greatly reduced. I can see how a lot of people who relied on illegal serve + 3rd ball kill will lose points with the new ball. With the new ball, you will have to rally your way out of a point, no more tricks. Still have no clue how it will affect pips. On one hand, LP will not be as deceptive any more, will be much easier to read. On the other, the defenders will be able to reach absolutely everything now. Those rallies against a quality defender may become TOO LONG because attacking player will make less errors but defender will have more time to reach the ball. As for chinese national team -- lets be honest, they don't care. Listen to their feedback - they don't praise the ball, they don't complain either, they don't give a sh1t. How will you win a point against ZJK with the new ball now is something we will have to see.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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@ assiduous
Great comment, Sir, indeed. I'm every inch concurrent with your sightful assessement of the ball prospects.. Summary opinion from many china players --Quite playable ball; good tangibility, good feeling, excellent control. BAD NEWS for all those seeking to know the PB real taste --The PB mass marketing is liable to postpone till the celluloid stocks is sold out. |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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All of my yes. Well put, this is also how I feel. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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So, Sharara got this change right?!!
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
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It depends on what is your aim in the sport. Assisduous and company like the ball because it is easier to play. That is, the sport has been further dummed down (like Baal and Wiggy said) so players like Assiduous and co can feel that they are better players. So the new bigger 40+ is easier than the -40mm which in turn was easier than the 38mm. So logically we will next have the 42mm poly and even 44mm until we get to Think how much easier to play table table tennis would become. Then we could reduce or even remove the sponge. so then we have How glorious that will be. Table tennis will be so much easier to play. Away with spinny serves. All will be about 'strategy'. . . . What a joke. |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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I don't like the false title of the tread, (you were going off hearsay
so I know this has been posted elsewhere I just want your information correct Implementation date for plastic balls at ITTF events also see attachment if it works Dear Colleagues, With this email I give you an update on the implementation date for using plastic balls at the ITTF events. On behalf of the ITTF Executive Committee I inform you that: 1. Plastic balls will be used at ITTF Sanctioned events from 1st July 2014 (reference: ITTF BoD decision 2012) 2. As an exception celluloid balls will be used at the 2014 Youth Olympic Games (reference: ITTF OPC decision 2014) and at four (4) ITTF Junior Circuit events taking place after 1st July 2014 but before the 2014 YOG (reference: ITTF EC decision 2014) Here is the list of the four (4) ITTF Junior Circuit events exceptionally using celluloid balls in the period between 1st July and 15th August 2014: - 2014 Korean Junior & Cadet Open, 30 July - 3 August - 2014 Hong Kong Junior & Cadet Open, 6-10 August - 2014 Guatemala Junior & Cadet Open, 6-9 August - 2014 El Salvador Junior & Cadet Open, 12-15 August Note and clarification: 2014 Chengdu Junior & Cadet Open (30 June-4 July) will have celluloid balls, because it starts BEFORE the implementation date. Here is the list of the ITTF event types where plastic balls will be used after 1st July 2014: - World Table Tennis Championships - World Junior Table Tennis Championships - World Cups (Men’s, Women’s and World Team Cup) - World Tour events including the World Tour Grand Finals - Global Junior Circuit events including the GJC Finals – except 4 tournaments specified in 2014 - World Cadet Challenge - ITTF-Continental Championships and ITTF-Continental Cups - Olympic Games including qualification tournaments - Youth Olympic Games including qualification tournaments – except 2014 YOG All the other tournament organisers can use any ITTF approved balls, plastic or celluloid. See attached a support document listing the ITTF decisions on the same subject. Regards Judit Farago ITTF CEO |
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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How would you like me to change the thread title? I'll do it. Edited by seguso - 04/03/2014 at 4:36pm |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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The title is a question (on whether the rumors are true I guess) so I, myself, don't really see a problem there. Just imho, though... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I think he just missed the "?"
regardless that excerpt is very helpful, because there's a lot of confusion surrounding the new balls.
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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ok then no to the question
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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My concern about dumbing down the game has always been more about serve rules than anything else (some members obviously have major problems returning serve) and I am going to wait and see what the new balls are like before saying anything much more about whether they have much impact on how we all play. In general there are ups and downs to every change. I have had really deep misgivings about the motivations for this change because I have never for a second believed in the "impending global ban on celluloid production". Also there is the little issue about immediate family of an ITTF equipment committee member holding a patent on a plastic ball manufacturing process. The higher price of the new balls does not surprise me (and is to be expected shortly after the commercial release of something made by a new manufacturing process). I don't think it's fair to say that Assiduous likes the ball because it makes him feel like a better player -- or alternatively that some of us who have been playing a lot longer would not like that too. My main wish is for the game to change as little as possible with the new balls. More generally, I would like a moratorium on rules changes that actually do dumb down the game and worse, are impossible to enforce and give us nothing but trouble. |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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whatever happened with the 'Dr Kuhn's wife being one of the patent owners' story? Was it false?
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Jot down the names of the inventors for the celluloid-free ball patent. Compare with the picture below. Behold yourself asking the question "what's wrong with the picture?"
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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You'd think they would want creativity in the game, not get rid of it.
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Mastermind
Silver Member Joined: 09/16/2009 Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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A slower ball with less spin and a higher bounce feels easier to play only at the very beginning. It is a delusion. Go to the page 1 and read again the Roundrobin's comments and mine. Edited by Mastermind - 04/03/2014 at 7:39pm |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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STOP THE SPEED RUSH.
My life's hot desire -- some voluntary universal Treaty signed at goodwill base for all the manufacturers to discontinue their persistent, insane rush for more speedy rubbers, blades. An upper limit on the dynamic capacity of the rubbers needs to be settled once and for all. This would be the best healthy change of the sport ever. ITTF is now working towards deciding on the best acceptable limits. Pres, Sharara has now told us the final implementation date 2015. Let the Revolution Start Up !! |
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Mastermind
Silver Member Joined: 09/16/2009 Status: Offline Points: 948 |
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Igorponger, my guess is that you do not really understand the game, you are probably a low level universal backhand pips pusher. I guess you've never seen how fast a good chopper with a slow racket can attack. The difference is that a faster racket makes it easier and as a result there are less injuries. On the other hand, when low level players can not block or return services reasonably because their rackets are too fast, it is ridiculous, but it is their own business. They could buy slower rackets easily. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Why do some people hate table tennis? |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
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even up to now i think ESN has not produced a pvc ball - viable rubber
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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they want to sell new blades and breaking the 100$ a rubber sheet barrier
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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I don't get the logic of this 'dummed down' argument. So longer rallies that require strategy and placement is dumb. But serve off the tip of your fingers and smack a popup is the mastery of the sport?
Are you sure you are not just automatically complaining about everything without even considering the real effects? Because in my opinion if ITTF had instead decreased the ball size and make it more spiny and fast, you would post the exact same comment, only this time you would say it is dummed down because you don't need to use strategy any more and you can just rip it through the middle and win the point. As long as you don't restrict yourself with logic, any argument can be used for any conclusion u want. Edited by assiduous - 04/04/2014 at 1:47am |
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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@assiduous
I can see how the reliance on kill-shots will decrease. You will need to use strategy to get a point, you cant just drill one right in the middle of the table and get away with it. agree 100% You will need better placement and combinations to get your opponent to open the table enough. I am a little excited actually. I think the rallies are gona become much more interesting now. agree 100%. I'm excited too. Another side effect - the nastyness of illegal serves is greatly reduced. I can see how a lot of people who relied on illegal serve + 3rd ball kill will lose points with the new ball. With the new ball, you will have to rally your way out of a point, no more tricks. Agree 100%. From my tests, all the points are now decided at mid distance. Because from close to table you cannot kill (or it's not convenient). Unless the Liu Guoliang style makes a comeback. More in general: with the new ball you will have to choose: if you want to play close to table, you will need two short pips. If you want to use inverted, you will have to play mid distance. That's my guess. Players with one pip and one inverted with suffer. the defenders will be able to reach absolutely everything now. +1 . I think we are underestimating this factor. I don't see Ma Long and the rest beating Joo Sae Hyuk or Masato easily anymore. Also, from my tests, when chopping you lose much less spin than you lose in pushing. |
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Tassie52
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Would it be too much to ask for some objective evidence for this statement? Any empirical data? Any articles published in respectable journals supporting this allegation?
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Oyabun
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http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?7796-CNT-2014-WTTTC-Closed-Training-News/page2 Edited by Oyabun - 04/04/2014 at 8:03am |
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Best of Five Carbon Light Allround Friendship Focus 3 Snipe (FH) Friendship Focus 3 Snipe (BH) |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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There are videos as well:
zjk vs fzd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3HThZptd_c ma long vs xu xin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Rofx2Xyso First impression: I was expecting longer rallies. I can see some difference but if you hadn't told me those were the new balls I wouldn't have noticed. Edited by seguso - 04/04/2014 at 9:39am |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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