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Sealing a blade |
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DaNgo
Super Member Joined: 09/01/2013 Location: Heaven Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Posted: 07/19/2014 at 12:50pm |
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I need seal my blade to protect it. I see in the market have XIOM I-sure, I don't use it any time, and I think it too expensive, 13$ for 25ml. My friend recommend coat0 sealing wood to replace I-sure. How do you think
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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I think the search feature holds your answer.
And if you can't be bothered, choose Minwax Satin Poly (aerosol) and be done with it.
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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tiehwen
Premier Member Joined: 11/22/2006 Location: Bukan Bumiputra Status: Offline Points: 6434 |
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this pic. says it all....
Edited by tiehwen - 07/19/2014 at 7:39pm |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Tiehwen and the theologian are right on the money! Edited by tommyzai - 07/19/2014 at 7:53pm |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I would add . . . use a clean cotton clothe like an old t-shirt. Rub it in. Do not let it puddle on top of blade. Repeat.
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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I use nittaku racket protect. It leaves a very thin wax like layer, so you retain that natural feeling; and only adds about 1-2g of weight to the blade. It pairs well with nittaku finezip. Every time I change rubbers, I reassess if I need to apply the racket protect.
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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http://www.google.co.th/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jitporn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2FLeylandLacquer-270x270.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jitporn.com%2Fproducts%2Fspraypaint%2Fleyland%2F&h=270&w=270&tbnid=sOJAtW-aKvq0NM%3A&zoom=1&docid=xxQnMzkrpvd--M&ei=Ui3LU8TWGdCRuATtwIKACw&tbm=isch&ved=0CCQQMygKMAo&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=311&page=1&start=0&ndsp=20
I use the spray. The clear one. |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Minwax is the best for sealing ! However I prefer to buy the smallest can as I do not use much of it. Once opened it will deteriorate as time passes.
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guillem
Member Joined: 04/28/2005 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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This is the most useful (and "true") reply for now by far, so do it if you want to apply properly the polyurethane varnish. Keep in mind that by applying it with a cloth you will prevent the acumulation of any excess of varnish that might happen if you applied it with a brush. It's even also useful if, between coats (best not more than 2 or 3), you could just sand slightly with sandpaper. I will take the plunge and say with a 240-340 grit but I'm just no sure of that so if any pro around here could just validate my words, please. If you do this, I think you would do just fine and I'm pretty sure you will obtain outstanding results. But, if you really want to get what I think are the best results (at least for me), I would you recommend to utterly skip this sealing method because polyurethane tends to change the touch of the blade even if you carry out it with the variation mentioned above: it tends to become more rigid, loses some of the "good vibrations" if you are using an all wood blade,... Here it comes what I think it's the best method of sealing the blade (at least for me). What I recommend you to do is to use a family of products called Hardwax oils. There are many brands out there that sure will do the job flawlessly but which I've just tested so far with unbelievable results is called Polyx-Oil, by OSMO. Keep in mind that this product is made of natural oils and waxes and it needs to penetrate the wood. The advantage I find more useful about it is that it maintains the original touch of the blade (some might think it even enhances the natural feeling of the wood in the composition of the blade, but it's a wild guess). You need to apply directly to the wood so, if you have sealed the blade previously with polyurethane or with a water based varnish you should sand it thoroughly. Then lightly (=not too much becouse the blade simply does accept the amount it can till it saturates itself) apply it with any kind of Scotch Britte scourer (=don't know why but by doing that the oil penetrates better to the wood), if not possible then apply it with an old rag. The next step is to allways after 10 minutes or less (here I'm not so sure becouse I think there are others who wait more and others who don't) remove any excess of oil on the wood. Use an old rag for better results. Then optionally you can sand it with 240-340 grit sand paper but it's not really compulsary, just do it if you want smoother finishes. Then repeat: lightly (=not too much becouse the blade simply does accept the amount it can till it saturates itself) apply it with any kind of Scotch Britte scourer (=don't know why but by doing that the oil penetrates better to the wood), if not possible then apply it with an old rag. I hope it to be of any use, Guillem.
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2220 |
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c4runner
Member Joined: 03/01/2014 Location: Russia, SPB Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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if you don't have any specific sealing stuff it is also possible to use hair fix spray. something like this
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robjkc
Super Member Joined: 12/26/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 433 |
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guillem
Member Joined: 04/28/2005 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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I really appreciate your help!!! Thanks to you, I can proudly say: "I've seen the light"/ "I've seen the right path"/... and stuff like that. P.S.: for those who don't know, Magic_M was "the one" who gave me the wise advice to use Hardwax Oil. P.P.S.: thanks again. You are the man.
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jfolsen
Gold Member Joined: 03/15/2006 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 1297 |
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So here is the issue: The better the protection, the more the sealer affects/alters the way the blade hits. It's a somewhat small amount, but it is noticeable.
Hairspray, protects the least but has a negligible effect on the feel of the blade.
Zissner Sanding Sealer, reasonable protection, slight change in the hardness of the blade. Minwax, great protection, won't ever splinter, but you are basically putting a very thin layer of plastic on top of your wood. jfolsen |
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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I don't like the idea of using sealant designed for general wood that alters the characteristic of a blade. What's the point of buying the blade if you end up affecting it with a non-table tennis sealant. It is why I go for Nittaku Racket Protect, but wouldn't mind trying other brands and as a last resort hair spray. When peeling the rubber, just peel from right to left or left to right. And using water based glue helps too for easier rubber removal. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Some people just use hair spray and then reapply once in awhile, as needed. Doesn't change the way the wood plays.
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Most (all?) of the TT sealers provide little protection against water (from the water-based glues), so they provide much less protection compared to something like a polyurethane-based sealer. If you only rub in a single very thin layer, I'm convinced you'll not be able to feel any difference. The water-based glues are actually much worse for your blade, which is why sealing the blade is more important than ever. Water will soak into wood, making it swell, which is damage that don't be undone without affecting the properties of the blade. |
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Nittaku Racket Protect does offer some protection against water, have done experiment before. And I just did an experiment where I spread some Finezip on paper, a very negligible amount of water soaked into the paper compared to just a small amount of water that soaked much on the same type of general A4 office paper. Don't forget too, only a very thin layer is applied when you put the glue on with a sponge. Also to add, if there's anything the rubber sponge that you then lay on top of the glue will soak up the water residue that has not been soaked up by the Nittaku Racket Protect (which you first coat on beforehand and let dry). Putting it all together, I think what I am using has little water impact on the blade. You got to remember, we are not constantly soaking the blade into water. But, I do think over a large period with my approach, you could see some effect on the top layer / ply of the blade with heaps of re-gluing. Though i have yet to see that. But that period / timeframe could be years. And when you consider the average cost of a blade is worth about 3 tenergy or other high end expensive rubbers, and rubbers have useful life of about 200-300 hours of good use (to me, I play about 15-20 hours a week, so that means 4-5 months of use at most), then I think over a stretch of 2-3 years, the idea of replacing a blade is reasonable. At which, I then get rid of my old blade by giving it to someone with TT dedication but less fortunate or someone who is unwilling to spend on a blade (I would ask the person who receives my blade to pass theirs to someone else, and it cycles down). I am not a blade collector though I do take decent care of them, however what's most important to me is experiencing the blade and rubbers in its rawest form (thus, I don't use glue sheets for inverted rubbers). I am more into the skills and technique development and enhancement, and being with the company of the people I play with. But I can also see why people would choose heavy duty wood sealant as they would probably want to keep the blade for more years. Or to simply put, who here spray their new TT shoes with water proofing spray? And who would take one less stride in their footwork knowing that each contact with the floor wears the sole out? My point is, no need to treat the blade as the most valuable thing in TT, because it is your skills, the rawest equipment experience and time spent with others that are more valuable. Edit: Typing a long response on a small phone device can be difficult. Edited by hithithit - 07/21/2014 at 4:23am |
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Ok, I must add that despite my view on sealant for blades, I have to strongly say that haggisv and others do have a point why sealant should be use. I don't want to downplay its role especially for those who are wanting to keep their blades for long period, e.g. 5 years plus. But in the same token, I suggest people give some thoughts before applying and not blindly just do so because people have said so. The last thing I want to hear is someone is having a break down because they didn't treat it or think of treating it with anything (sealant, Nittaku Racket Protect, others, hair spray) before applying glue.
And as always, be careful when taking rubbers off the blade. |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4229 |
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Isn't MinWax toxic?Any alternative is not toxic?
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laki
Member Joined: 05/24/2013 Location: SE Europe Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Maybe this is your answer.
It's water based, so non toxic, and with two layers it adds 1g or less to the weight of your blade. I buy it in my country for 6 euros for 100 ml from Joola representative, but i can see that it costs 11.95$ on megaspin. I used it on all my blades without any issues what so ever. It protects the blade as good as any other sealant, and it doesn't have that high gloss finish when it dries, but more of a soft satin look. Here is my Infinity treated with two layers of Joola varnish: Here is varnish more notable. A close up side view with sunlight bouncing of the surface of the blade When you unscrew the lid you have a brush mounted on it, but it's of a bad quality, so i use sponges to apply it, the same you use to apply glue. Another big thing to notice is: i often tryout blades with rubbers glued on before i seal them, than i take off the rubbers gently, seal the blade and glue them on again. I didn't notice any change in performance in any of the blades that i used Joola varnish on. Up until now, i sealed Clipper Wood, Stradivarius, OSP Musko, OSP Virtuoso, JOOLA Greenline Extreme, Joola K7, Killerspin Diamond CQ and few others, and i beleve that they all kept their performance and sound the same before and after sealing with this varnish. Maybe a player with more sensitive touch and hearing can feel the difference, but i just couldn't. You have instructions on on how to apply it on megaspin or joola's official site. Just google it, and you wont miss it. Hope i helped a bit. EDIT: I updated the price and added photos.
Edited by laki - 07/24/2014 at 6:11am |
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Stiga Clipper CC
FH: Xiom Vega Pro BH: Joola X-plode |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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hair spray.
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el_bichito
Super Member Joined: 02/12/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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how would you remove xiom i-sure water based blade sealer from bat? i put too much i think. any options apart from sanding down? Also dont want to damage surface of blade. Brian
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1225
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Blade: Stiga Infinity VPS
BH: Rakza 7 Max FH: Rakza 7 Max |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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If you know what glue to use and don't glue too often you don't need to seal. It is very safe to assume that if it seals, it also changes the properties of the blade, though my main blades are sealed and I love their feel. If you reglue a lot I can confirm from personal experience that the blades become softer just from the water in the glue.
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el_bichito
Super Member Joined: 02/12/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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any ideas on removing the sealant without sanding or damaging the blade surface. thanks
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Blade: Stiga Infinity VPS
BH: Rakza 7 Max FH: Rakza 7 Max |
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col6628
Member Joined: 04/24/2016 Location: nottingham Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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if you use hair spray one or two coats ?
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I use hair spray (two coats), and I find it did not work on some of my blades. I think it depends on the finish of the blade's surface.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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nail polish remover
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I will try to seal my next blade with this method.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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