|
|
Thomas Keinath on plastic balls |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | ||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If they are trying to reduce Chinese dominance, this is insane. All rule changes favor the Chinese. It doesn't matter what they are.
|
||
Sponsored Links | ||
mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think that is true, because all changes favor the ones who adapt rather than the ones who complain .
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Also, the Chinese have already had teams of PhDs working on how they will adapt to these balls, and they have a deep pool of talent so will also find the best players to meet the new demands. All this in addition to what mhnh007 wrote.
|
||
vvk1
Gold Member Joined: 11/14/2009 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm not surprised he & Patrick Baum broke some balls in training:
Edited by vvk1 - 07/30/2014 at 10:09am |
||
lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It appeared in open play when he took the ball over the table off the bounce he had decent control but when he looped further back from the table he was swinging very hard and still had difficulty generating enough top spin to hit the table. I can't imagine that players will be able to put that much energy into their strokes and be able to play for extended periods.
|
||
garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Chinese players will adapt of course, but there is chance they will achieve this by switching to non-hard- tacky rubbers on fh side, to have better hit-through game. Imagine how much more money this will bring to butterfly and other hungry companies... china has really lot of registered players. Potential financial gain is worth risking of destroying the game.
|
||
Equipment database
Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
||
Butt Stallion
Super Member Joined: 02/27/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 139 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
they are never going to switch to non tacky rubbers. its even more possible they are switching to both sides tacky rubbers because there is going to be less spin in the new ball...
|
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It is really hard to predict what equipment changes will work best with these new balls. You actually have to try a few things just to see. I have no doubt that CNT already have a solution well in hand. I for one doubt they would give up the classic tacky forehand topsheet but I could see how they might go for faster sponge.
It seems to me that the issues are: 1 You are going to need to find a way to generate more spin 2 You also need to compensate a bit for the slower speed of the ball through the air 3 Whatever solutions you come up with to deal with problem 2 risk eliminating too much arc on the ball which could be bad. 4 You don't want to change feel of the setup too radically either. So how do you manage this? Faster blades? Grippier topsheets? Faster sponge? Change in pip structure of topsheet? Better boosters? Only way to know is to try some of these things. |
||
lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Natural for players use to a spin dominated game trying to create the same spin/speed with different equipment, I am sure manufactures will provide some relief for a PRICE! One group to watch in this transition is the U12 player who has had private coaching, endless summer camps and developed a solid looping game by 9 years old, how will they react to this change and will they wish to continue with a new playing style. I play some of these kids and they get frustrated fast and can lose interest if its doesn't go there way. Lots of smaller players U12 in various clubs but the drop out rate looks high as they move into middle and High school. |
||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The lack of spin frustrates me... and I am not U12 player...
|
||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Xiom is already introducing products that they claim "are designed for plastic balls". But with the wide range of products already available, this may be unnecessary and just a marketing scam, certainly for blades. As for kids getting frustrated, they will be quickest to adapt. The gloom and doom forgets that we have been through this before. (I am not defending this change by saying this). Loopers are not about to go extinct!
|
||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Agreed, topspin won over the backspin oriented game long ago and it wasn't solely due to equipment. |
||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||
AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
the new Plastic balls suck! I played a while with another 2200+ player with the new Joola plastic ball and neither one of us liked them. The spin was considerably less and the speed as well. I think the main reason the ITTF is looking at changing to the new plastic ball is money $$$. There will be a big change in the game if we really do switch to this new ball. I give them a big thumbs down..
|
||
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have to say, the more I play with the Joola 40+ the less I like them. They are really messing up my timing and all my instincts for judging trajectory when I am away from the table are wrong since the damned things bounce so low.
|
||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
If Nittaku creates a ball for the other TT companies, there will be hope.
|
||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||
kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
OooOoOoooOOOppppssss Now we think the same ... That is one of the reasons I think with these balls lower skilled players have advantage VS more skilled players as nothing works well for the players who have developed their game with years and now everything is different, so their muscles can't produce the needed power, spin and speed. Totally different game. Some people wrote in their first impressions they like the new ball, but that means they are playing for a day or two. Or they are just beginners and they have no experience. I have no other explanation. My hope is these balls to be changed as soon is possible enough to be playable. The current stock I tested (Tibhar and Xushaofa poly balls) are better for using for some other purpose, but not and table tennis. Edited by kolevtt - 08/01/2014 at 8:38pm |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Another thing, I seem to do better with the new balls on older Tibhar Smash 28 tables, and really struggled with them on relatively new Butterfly Europa tables.
|
||
slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Anyone know if any of the regional tournaments in the US are moving to using the plastic ball soon?
|
||
Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
||
lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
USATT committee mentioned in its May minutes that the Open and Nationals would use the 40C. "Meetings with ITTF and Youth Olympic Games Status Mr. Babuin and Mr. Lee attended recent ITTF meetings held in Japan. Mr. Lee made several recommendations to the Equipment Committee which were approved. Mr. Babuin commented that the new “noncelluloid” ball is being manufactured by three companies in China, one in Japan, and one in Germany. However, it is expected that the celluloid ball will continue to be used at the upcoming U.S. Open and Nationals." |
||
bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
when ITTF has done anything not related to grabbing money? and the bearded loser
|
||
Ciprian
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2008 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Can't wait to see the first matches in a major Event with these new balls (which suck IMHO). Probably many players will go crazy.........or not.
PS.- What's a blocker without a looper?
|
||
Xi Enting
FH-Aurus Sound BH- Pryde 30 |
||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Who is that single manufacturer in Japan, Butterfly or Nittaku? I suspect that it is Butterfly. |
||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It's definitely Nittaku.
|
||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That I find very surprising. With Butterfly's history and R&D facilities, I thought that they'd definitely be producing a version. Edited by Tinykin - 08/02/2014 at 8:21am |
||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||
jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
They never - ever had the best ball at all. Quality was just only on the average. I wonder where is going to be made poly-TSP, the second best tt ball so far during celuloid age.
Edited by jonyer1980 - 08/02/2014 at 10:31am |
||
Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
||
Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I have always rated Butterfly at the top for their balls when compared to DHS, DF, Joola and Donic.
These are the ones supplied by tournament sponsors over here. I have a few Nittaku but not enough to compare. But I know several players who swear by them. Edited by Tinykin - 08/02/2014 at 1:49pm |
||
Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
A few things about these balls that are strange. You have to constantly remind yourself to wait, to not rush, wait for the ball to come to you. But at the same time, when you drop back you have to be prepared to move forward quickly because these balls don't come out as far and dead or slow balls drop like a rock. But just forcing yourself to stay closer doesn't seem to be the answer because you just end up not having any leverage on attack. I think we will all need to practice front and back movements more than we do now. You need to be cautious about when to go all out on a third ball attack too, because the ball may come back. The feel for returns of serve is strange too. The low bounce is really annoying I have to say, but I suppose we will all eventually get used to it. You have to stay low hitting these balls even more than now, it really punishes any lapse in that.
|
||
kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, here is the truth. I tested the new Tibhar poly ball in a game for points with lower skilled player than me. I played with classic defense style, using a paddle from 60's (Harvard conical thin handle and big head with double placed OX textile rubbers with orange pips out, something like Barna's paddles). What I can say here - with the old balls I beat that player easy 3:0 under 5 points each game or around this result. Impossible to lost a game. The rallies are often finishing after 3-4-5 hits. That player is playing double attack style with carbon blade and inverted rubbers, a true two winds looper and drive - smasher, not so good as quality of the strokes, but very experienced veteran, playing table tennis regular more than 30 years. So, what happened on the table with the new ball I will share it now - I was surprised how easy he is looping each ball, no matter my efforts in chopping. I tried different kind of chopping, different angle of the paddle for example to change the level of spin, nothing works. I was just smashed and I was forced to run a lot in all directions. I just lost my power in legs very fast, because each rally often was more than 10 balls, the less spin and speed of the ball made the things MUCH MORE EASY for my opponent, as he had enough time to move correct himself and prepare for the next hit, while I was forced to make incredible savings up to the end of the game. Also he was able to smash more of the balls directly because the lack of spin. He was so happy at the end At the end of the game my opponent/partner just said : Xa Xa Xa! Do you want one more game? Because he saw I can't take a breath and I am really tired, much more easy to play with me... Of course If I am playing with the two inverted rubbers he is not so thankful to ITTF and their new most GENIUS idea with these balls, but also happy. Next - he asked me where are Joo and Koji, if they are still playing, because it will be pleasure to meet them with the new balls, he said laughing He really noticed I can't produce so high spin impossible for loop with his own muscle skills with this new Tibhar poly ball, also he noticed the longer rallies, the increased work with my legs I am doing during the games and the faster loss of power I felt by myself, that made me more slowly at the end and more easy for him to continue placing left - right- left - right. It was not any problem to combine shortly pushed balls with a loop next in the opposite direction I am placed at the moment after receiving a very strongly chopped ball. With the old balls this is impossible, usually he can't return. I am not sure about the future of the defenders. My prayers will be for them all The more heavier ball with lower jump and less spin is not a good idea for that style. The things are going triple more harder for defenders now with these balls. Only push blockers and pips-out drive-smashers will be happy I think, but after many trainings to understand the timing and jump of the new poly ball. There is no doubt I won't think for any long pips after January 2016. |
||
lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks for the feedback Baal and Kolvett, from talking to various players at the clubs most everyone thinks the transition to the new ball will be easy but few if any players has had any experience with them,in general players don't expect to make any changes in how they play! There is only one player I know who has had much experience with the 40+ and he loves it, very physical player trains everyday says returning loops is a breeze.
|
||
zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sounds like what one would expect playing against anti. |
||
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
||
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |