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Boycott plastic balls |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Unfortunately, I was the first person at my club to buy plastic balls so I never got the placebo test. However, I can tell you this - for the way I played before the change, and for players who take the ball earlier and more aggressively off the bounce, the DHS ball can be a pain to use. Players who take the ball later tend to have more time to adjust to the bounce, but because it bounces lower, I can tell the difference fairly quickly if I play my old style of game as most of my attacks over the table will go into the net. I can show you recent matches with the same opponent played with the XSF ball and then with a DHS ball. You may not see the difference in how I play if you look at the quality of the play. But there are certain shots that I take and miss because the ball doesn't show up where I expect it to be in terms of height. This changes the later you take the ball and the more you use spin to come up on the ball, but I wasn't doing this 6 months ago. But when you see my instinctive over the table strokes come into play, especially against spinless balls, you see the difference. So with all due respect, I think the similarity of the balls is largely dependent on playing style and game speed. It's also easier to accept if you haven't tried a variety of balls or played back-to-back with various balls. I have forced myself to practice more that way to get used to adapting but it is harder than it sounds because it forces you to take the ball later more often and to watch it carefully.
Edited by NextLevel - 03/31/2015 at 2:36am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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The DFish balls bounce slightly higher than the DHS. I actually liked them and always chose them when given a choice between them and a DHS ball, though that might change now given that I have practiced with the DHS ball more extensively. Because they bounce higher even though they are relatively soft, you can get an extremely slow game if you play in a club with a wooden floor. Defenders and blockers tend to love that ball because it is so hard to put away if the tables are playing slow. Not as smashable as seamless balls. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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DFish balls had better durability than DHS, but the Nittaku Premium 3* wasn't that durable either to be honest. I found the DHS and DFish Cell 3* to be much more durable. My memory doesn't agree with our friend but I haven't bought or used a DFish ball in a while (almost 3 months). They also had roundness issues. But again, QC might have improved.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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in a blind test at my club a few weeks ago i was more likely to to mistakenly identify NP40+ as celluloid. I picked out the Chinese seamed ball and seamless pretty reliably. Both sre pretty easy to tell from celluloid. Right now celluloid balls feel like they are coming really fast at me because i mostly use seamless. Also when you are playing free it is easier to tell the difference than just doing counters or looping and blocking. For me now plastic is the new normal. I still find Chinese seamed balls require adjustment and it takes me quite awhile. I guess I am a creature of habit.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Pretty interesting. I find the NP40+ to make a distinctive sound which I almost instantly recognize. But maybe I should be subjected to blind testing at some point. If someone on the forum knows me and hits with me sometime, please fool me and use a ball without me knowing what it is. I do have a habit of checking balls so it might not work, but you can declare what ball you want me to think it is before starting.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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$10 for a box of 3 Butterfly 40+ balls. We're getting into that ballpark.
I think that postings in a forum can have the unfortunate effect of amplifying the apparent "worry" over an issue because they can be so focused on a singular topic. Aside from my tendency to be curious, I'm interested in this topic because I have to make decisions for our club and because club members who don't want to investigate these issues are likely to come to me with questions. So I spend an inordinate amount of time on the issue compared to what I would consider typical or normal. But I'm not losing any sleep over the issue. After reading a few rather biased 40+ ball FAQs, I put together my own biased FAQ for our club. I figure I'll have to update it every month or so as things evolve. I think things like this help drive the market forces in small ways that in aggregate matter. Right now the market has to work against the fact that the ITTF has managed to choose one of the worst balls for their tournaments. Edited by wturber - 03/31/2015 at 2:09pm |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I'll have what he's having . Double fish seamed balls are just a little better than DHS seamed balls. One ball may last few sessions. You cannot go wrong with the seamless balls.
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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https://www.google.ru/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=962&bih=493&q=%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA+%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8F&oq=%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA&gs_l=img.1.2.0l10.44989.47500.0.53179.6.6.0.0.0.0.407.1059.2-1j1j1.3.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.64.img..3.3.1055.RWRHGgrYZds
Disaster to be never fogotten. I had been to Spitak, I seen the deads. Ping pong balls is never my trouble anyway. Sorry. |
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LennyG
Member Joined: 09/14/2014 Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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From Larry Hodges' daily blog about USATT Board meeting:
"Then came a discussion of plastic balls, led by Ed Hogshead, who pointed out the problems of so many balls that play differently being used in different tournaments, and argued for setting a date where we go all plastic in 3-star and above tournaments. The problem is that the different plastic balls themselves are very different themselves, and so unless we settled on one brand, it might not help much. No action was taken here, and most likely all we can do is wait one or two years until the manufacturers fix these problems with a more standardized ball." WE SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING WITH PLASTIC BALLS AT ALL IN LOCAL TOURNAMENTS AND LEAGUES!!! I feel better now |
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USATT 1700
Donic Waldner WC89 Xiom Omega V Asia |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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If I have money I would invest a share to DHS ball factory! Just imagine how many ball they will sell to the world and how much money they will earn by ITTF decision!
They will be such a billionaire! |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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A week ago Sunday I had the privilege of practicing at the TopSpin club in Milpitas, CA with my friend Hermann Luechinger using the Butterfly 40+ mm. polyball. I was topspinning fh and bh, Hermann was chopping fh and bh. We were using hardbats. After about 15 min. of practice the ball behaved like a flat tire on an automobile. A breakage kind of like a crack in the San Andreas fault was clearly visible on the ball. Fortunately, Hermann had a 38 mm. 3-star Nittaku. Ah the joy! The 38 played great! Go one step further, gentlemen: boycott all 40 mm. balls. Back to the future. It's not too late for the 38 (if you still have any of those suckers).
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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IanMcg
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2011 Location: Somehere Status: Offline Points: 1151 |
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Berndt_mann, I've always wondered about the qualities of a 38mm plastic ball.
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I dunno, I still really like XSF quite a bit.
I can't stand SHA. Haven't tried anything else.
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Let's go all out... I say let's go back to rounded wine bottle corks. |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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For what it's worth, I have very little trouble going back and forth to the 38mm ball. I have a small cache of 38mm Nittaku 3* balls. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I haven't tried it, haven't even seen a small ball in years. I
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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It's way easier to adjust to different balls with a hardbat than with inverted rubbers, trust me. At least ten times easier.
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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But your serves though... they'd be sooooo spinny.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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But my short ones would come out so LONG. |
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
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someone said we're going back to celluloid this summer. is that true?
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Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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[QUOTE=kurokami]someone said we're going back to celluloid this summer. is that true?[/QUOTE
some of us never left..
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Ray
Gold Member Joined: 02/28/2012 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 1845 |
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+1
Wasn't that on 1st April? |
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kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
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performance-wise, it only takes a little bit for me to adjust but it is quite tiring. after a couple matches, i started feeling more tired than usual
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Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Got to play with a plastic ball for the first time yesterday!!! WOOOOT. It was a Nittaku Premium 40+, and frankly I thought it was great. Great meaning I didn't feel any real difference from playing with premium celluloid balls. Played for about 1 1/2 hours and the ball was fine the entire time (ie didn't break).
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Cheat - you need to play with the Joolas or DHS balls - I can send you a few anytime. The NP 40+ is not being used at any monthly tournaments I know of.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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Some observations from players at about 2200 who have been playing with plastic for a whole season now:
A talented youngster who is about 17 and practices roughly 15 hours a week intensively says that his topsheets rip after 2 weeks. I do not know what rubber he uses. Another player says that everybody will have to move harder rubbers. He personally played with Acuda S3 before the change, then tried T64FX which was still too soft for the new ball and settled with T05 for FH and T05FX for BH. He is still using a Primorac OFF- but is moving to some composite blade because he is at a disadvantage at that level. He estimates that the ball change is bad for 8 people out of 10 and good for only two. I would not have believed that 30 hours of training can destroy a rubber, I find it appalling actually. |
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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Of course, everybody knows that these balls disadvantages players who base their game most of all on spins....at every levels but....we are now obliged (in Belgium) to use these plastic balls so my main concern is that they are so different from one brand to another :((((
It is too late to boycott something and also ITTF is and will always be a dictatorship. Even the Pro players were not asked about the introduction of this "illness" into the game.
During the celluloid balls era, some differences already existed between balls made by some brands but, even if I sometimes found these differences relatively important, that was nothing if you compare with plastic balls. At my club, we play with stiga 40+....but every 2 weeks, we will play away....Vs clubs which use either DHS, or Nittaku, BTY, Tibhar, Donic..... I tried nearly all these balls and with some of them......I am simply not able to play :))) I forecast some "funny" moments... |
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Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I usually play with Xushaofa, which is the ball my club has adopted. I like that ball. I play well with it. I'm adjusted to the timing. I played a sanctioned tournament yesterday using Nittaku Sha, and it made me want to quit table tennis. I got so pissed. I just couldn't adjust my timing, and I couldn't even land my opening backhand when I was just going for consistency and not power. When the ball dropped to below net level or at table level, I couldn't spin it on with my forehand to save my life. I felt embarrassed, and got really disappointed with myself.
Interesting though that for quickfire questions asked to Fan Zhendong, Xu Xin, and Zhu Yueling, they all said they preferred plastic. I think it's an embarrassment to have different brands play SO differently now. Some of them are complete garbage.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It's been out for awhile. We discussed this at length at OOAK and on a few threads here. I think the biggest mistake ITTF did was to approve balls that did not meet the criteria they had set in advance (by allowing wider tolerances until Jan 2016), and to ignore the issue of durability in their testing. His argument here is that they had to get things started or they would never get to where they wanted to be. I find that hard to accept. Since then, Mr Kueneth has said they may incorporate some sort of durability testing without saying what it will be.
The really glaring thing is that not all of the plastic balls are terrible, just the ones made by companies like DHS that have especially close relationships to ITTF. |
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