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Double Day Valiant Loop King Review |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Posted: 06/07/2015 at 6:38am |
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Should it be possible to call an ALC Blade a "Loop King"? I tend to hate carbon blades but I was offered one to review by a friend at a reasonable price.
I will spend the next week answering this question and let you know. Appearance (6/7/2015) (Video added 6/8/2015) The blade is definitely a high quality ALC blade. I don't use ALC blades usually so I really can't compare it to Timo Boll ALC. The ST handle I am using is different from the Timo Boll ALC though and a bit thinner than I would prefer (with rubbers, the blade is head heavy). The one I got weighs 89g. The head is 161mm by 151mm. It's about 6mm thick. It's similar to a Timo Boll ALC I think with the main difference being that a Koto outer ply is replaced by an Anegre outer ply. Anegre is harder than I would usually like, but it is an outer ply that I have used on the Yasaka Extra and Grubba blades so I have no problem with it unlike Koto, which I almost feel allergic to even when I don't play that badly with it. Initial Tests (6/7/2015) I put on my spare Adidas P7 rubbers and took it to the club. Immediately, I could see the advantage of this blade over my usual wood blades - this is a clear OFF blade, no compromises. It felt so good that I wanted to play with it. Against my better judgement, I moved my Tenergy 05 sheets onto it. I will be playing competitive matches with it. I went 4-3 today in matches I played with it. Given I was coming from ALL+/OFF- blades, my control suffered on defensive and offensive shots, but it was much easier to put the ball by people with sheer speed. One of my clubmates plays with a Timo Boll ALC FL with T05 and T80. I will exchange blades with him and loop before making more detailed conclusions. I was impressed by the looping quality, but again, it makes the most sense to compare this with the ALC Butterfly blades before closing this review out. I am not a fan of detailed reviews of blades which go into line by line descriptions of strokes which are largely technique dependent. Blade speed tends to have a universal effect on strokes. What's more important is whether I (and maybe you) would feel comfortable with a blade and why. Comparison with a Timo Boll Spirit (6/10/2015) Alas, no one in my club has a Timo Boll ALC. The juniors use Timo Boll ZLCs (a different and excellent blade in its own right). One of my club mates does have a Timo Boll Spirit with Tenergy 05 on both sides. I tried it - it was lighter than my blade and seemed faster - not sure whether it was because it was easier to swing or just faster. The owner felt it was faster than my blade too, So maybe my blade is really an OFF-/OFF blade with a power kick on some harder strokes. That would give the Loop King name better context. Concluding Thoughts (until I find a Timo Boll ALC with T05 to compare) (6/10/2015) I like the blade a lot. It fits my looping focused style very well and is now my main blade. That said, it was heavier on the head with Tenergy 05 than a Timo Boll Spirit and that balance might not sit well with some people. The blade might also be too slow for lovers of the Timo Boll Spirit/ALC blades. That said, if you like to play heavy topspins with good placement and control, this is a blade for you.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/11/2015 at 1:13am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Was it Schen who came across a double day blade with zlc on one side and alc on the other. Ever since then, this brand caught my attention. Looking forward to your review
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Let the party begin....whoop whoop....sorry getting too excited...
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Careful now, Mr. 42 . We would hate to see you get injured out of excitement
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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Thanks for the post NL! I am curious to see how you rate the Loop King against the TB ALC.
And asifgunz, I've PM'd you!
Edited by schen - 06/08/2015 at 1:45pm |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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NL, what do you think of the finish quality of the blade?
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I will post some Youtube video before ruining the blade with my technique. I won't take the rubbers off though. The packaging/box was excellent (probably overkill) and the finish was as good as any Butterfly blade I remember, probably better.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Thanks NL... Better than Butterfly....Thats a high standard. Now waiting if it plays better than the Timo. Pics, youtube and more thoughts are appreciated. I have some EJ issues....
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Well, no one showed up to my club today so it will likely be Wednesday or Thursday before I get a fuller blade review and compare to the Timo ALC and ZLC. Tenergy 05 should be on all the forehands so it should be straightforward.
I added the video view of the blade though.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Well, I believe Double Day do have a TB ALC competitor/clone. So it's really not about beating it. It's just more about blade quality and seeing how they are different. I also don't believe in such nonsense as "beating the performance". Blades are personal things - as long as they are not unreliable or badly made, what suits you may not suit me. But technique is the king that rules everything - you need that to be right before you even investigate what the blade is about.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/09/2015 at 10:01am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I am doing this review largely to give people an idea of the quality of the blade. The concept of outperforming is not a part of it. Hope that explains why the lecture is required. Now back to our regularly scheduled review before the rude interruption.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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To each his own.
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Who actually makes this blade NL?
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I believe Double Day is an OEM in Taiwan. They probably produced the Timo Boll ALC for a while as well (look at their Winner blade). |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Maybe someone can get some history/background info of Double Day.
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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asifgunz
Gold Member Joined: 09/15/2013 Location: Queens NY Status: Offline Points: 1448 |
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Schen met with the owner of Double Day during his visit. Maybe he would know more
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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The father and son carpentry team behind Double Day was the former OEM for very famous Japanese table tennis brands for over 20 years.
Although the specific companies they made blades for is confidential, let's just say that when they stopped being an exclusive OEM for a particular brand, that brand started putting silver tags on the bottoms of their handles instead of the black ones to signify the change in partnership and manufacturing. TT collectors will probably understand what I mean by "black tag."
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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an OEM should be able to duplicate a design they manufactured for a brand, but could they design any new blades without the acquired expertise? Quality is one thing but how they play maybe another. Or is it just a matter of slabbing together certain materials (wood / fiber / carbon)?
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Nice...so are you saying these blades will be in the black tag quality. How did you like your penhold with the zlc/alc combo? |
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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Well they aren't in the business of making clones like Yinhe and other Chinese brands. They are a Taiwanese brand, with ethics and quality more in line with Japan. The DD gear I have are their own take on blades. They also produce high quality 1-ply blades, using kiso hinoki and meniki among other cypress woods, but I did not bring back any samples of those with me. I am currently testing the ZLC/ALC terminator and the ALC winner (koto/alc). NextLevel is reviewing the third blade of the trio, the ALC loop king. I will have my own impressions of the other blades after I spend more time with them. If anyone else is interested in trying a new DD blade at discount, please PM me, as I am soon to be the exclusive distributor of Double Day in North America. I am trying to get an idea of the market interest and impressions of the blades before I begin moving larger volumes to North America!
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Schen, If you go to the page for the Winner in the links that fatt provided, and you try to translate the page to English, you get a style for the winner called "Attack". This makes sense. If you go to the page for the Loop King and try the same translation, the same thing says "flurry", which may be "hurricane" for all I know. What is the intent in English?
Edited by NextLevel - 06/10/2015 at 2:45pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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Welcome back, Schen Let's play soon.
— Also, do you know where DD is having their blades manufactured?
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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" I am soon to be the exclusive distributor of Double Day in North America."
Congratulations. Hope we will have a new good and cheaper alternative to the unreasonable prices being charged by certain brands currently.
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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I believe it translates to what most companies call the "quick attack" style. More emphasis on speed as opposed to spin and designed for at the table play I suppose.
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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Thanks! I'll be at the Learning Tree club this evening for the adult classes if you happen to be around! And Double Day blades are manufactured in Taiwan. Double Day's office, warehouse, and factory are all in the same building.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Despite being thicker and using Anegre, it's actually slower than a Timo Boll Spirit. So it's possible for a lighter style. Initial Review completed.
Edited by NextLevel - 06/11/2015 at 1:12am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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Until you play with it in a tournament, you don't really know how you'll like it.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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berkeleydoctor
Silver Member Joined: 01/06/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 699 |
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NL, it's funny that you're going from wood blades to carbon and im going the opposite direction
maybe we'll both switch back again soon
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I already did, if you read my review. I played well with it.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I switch back and forth but tend to favor the Evolution MX-S. It taught me that Tenergy 05 Requires a Faster blade than what I currently use. The real problem was the head heaviness. That I could not cope with because it required me to be higher up on the blade/handle than I would like to be for my loose wrist strokes and that was not ideal for my FH/BH transition. The power was ideal however - I was able to make some awesome shots from near mid distance to the table that I usually just don't make. With easy swings too. I have one video where I just did some crazy things to the ball and in my mind, I was like... wow! I usually can't do that as confidently with my all wood blades. https://youtu.be/An5iXgG9ej0?t=240 (to place the video in context, I have been trying to work through a recommendation someone made about my finishing position for my backhand loop and I didn't really understand what he wanted at first, but I figured it out finally - watching that video was the key last step). I saw Filip Szymanski's setup and he uses my favorite OFF wood blade (Force Pro) because he loves the control (hahahaha - sounds like me) but he did a handle modification with sandpaper on the conical flare to make it a straight handle. Food for thought... where's that sander... |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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