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Speed glue effect short pips but with MEDIUM spin |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Posted: 07/02/2015 at 12:45pm |
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I'm using Spectol 21 and I love the Spectol topsheet. Though my only problem with it is that I hate boosting the sponge. It plays well with Falco long but between months one and two of it being boosted it begins to wear off gradually and the inconsistency of its performance is not something I like to deal with. On top of that, the process of boosting is a pain in the ass. I tried Victas VO 101. VO 101 had a great, fast sponge and the pip structure was very similar to Spectol but the material it was made of was slick and had a plastic-like feeling to it. This slickness/reduction in spin made it play more like a medium pip than a short pip or Spectol and I hate medium pips. So now, I'm on the hunt for a speed glue effect short pip with similarities to Spectol's topsheet or at least similarities to how it plays. There's several short pips out there with modern tensor sponges but most of them seem to be very high in spin for a short pip. I was thinking about one of the Andro Hexer pips but there's not much information out there about them. I was also thinking about flarestorm 2 but I'm not sure how much of a speed glue effect it has. There's some other ones (Adidas Blaze Speed?, Blowfish+?, etc) too. I'm willing to go a little spinnier than Spectol if necessary but I'm trying to avoid high spin short pips. I know similar topics exist but most of them are asking for high speed and high spin. I'm looking for high speed, MEDIUM spin, and that speed glued feeling. All help and advice is appreciated.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1859 |
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Try Andro Blowfish+. It's fast and has medium amount of spin.
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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
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FlatHitter
Super Member Joined: 10/14/2014 Location: modesto ca. Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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JOOLA express ultra...speed glue affect..."tensor" effect..this is the best short pips on the market for topspin and speed, no reason to boost..or try 15 different rubbers, it has what your looking for. save your money, I have been using it for 2 years on backhand and have tested several short pip rubbers..the rubber review sights will back my claim.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Dave, thank you for the suggestion. I always value your short pips opinions. How does Blowfish+ compare to regular Blowfish? I'd also like to keep the sponge on the softer side and it seems regular Blowfish is softer. Do you have any other experiences with any other tensor short pips? Have you tried any of the Hexer pips? FlatHitter is suggesting Joola Express Ultra. Have you tried that? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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You say best for topspin and speed but just how much topspin? If it's as high as Rakza P.O, Zava, or even 802-40 then that's too high. There are still other tensor short pips out there and you say you've tried several of them. What made you choose Express Ultra over these other ones? Also, like I had mentioned to AcudaDave, I'd like to keep the sponge on the softer side if possible. How hard is the sponge and more importantly does it feel hard during play? Thank you for the help. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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FlatHitter
Super Member Joined: 10/14/2014 Location: modesto ca. Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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JOOLA express ultra is about a 7 on spin, very close to a lot of inverted rubbers, if that is to much spin...
I would give DONIC baxter a shot, soft sponge, about 35 deg...ultra express is a 40 deg. sponge also...NITTUKU hammond fa is also a fine rubber... JUIC pattsuma 2 is pretty good..all of these are very good short pip rubbers that can punch block very well, I had a lot of fun with donic baxter...it has a soft sponge!..good luck! p.s...there are several different short pips on zero pong for around $15.00 that are good. |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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If it's a 7 relative to inverted rubbers that's too high. If it's a 7 relative to short pips rubbers that's borderline/my limit. Also, looking at images of express ultra, I see the logo on the bottom appears to be enormous. It might sound like nit picking but that's points against it. Right now I'm really leaning on one of the Hexer pips. There's 3 different versions of them and I don't know the difference. I also like that the Hexer pips allow you to choose vertical and horizontal alignment by having the logo printed twice per sheet. Have you ever used any of the Hexer pips? I've tried patisuma before, I didn't like it much and it doesn't have a speed glue effect. The same goes for all of those chinese pips on zeropong, no glue effect. I'm not so sure about Baxter. There are 2 versions and they're both kind of older. I'm not sure how much of a speed glue effect it has. I've also had poor durability from Donic Acuda and Bluefire. The sponges lasted about 3 months before they lost most of their pop. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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I have tried all kinds of SPs but in the end I listened to my coach/friend Gao Jun. The Butterfly Challenger 1.9 in black is the best of them all for the new plastic ball. You should know that speed glue effect for SPs is a two-edge sword; it makes all your shots faster, but a quality opponent will use the speed against you, as you can't produce enough spin but he/she can. So all your fast flat hits, blocks and pushes will come back to you as fast but with extra spin.
Being able to slow it down with angled blocks, short drops, and add spin in pushes is crucial with SPs, unless you are super athletic and ready to play all your points at a break-neck pace...
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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But then wouldn't that apply to inverted rubbers also? If I use a tensor inverted rubber, a speed glue effect, it will create more speed than a classic rubber. If my faster hit is returned it will come back to me even faster. This is true regardless of short pips or inverted. Or are you saying that if I get a tensor short pip it should also be spinny to counter the incming higher spin inverted my opponent uses? Maybe I don't understand correctly. Could you clarify please? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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With inverted, you can step back, with short pips, you can't.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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True, but what I'm looking for firstly and most importantly is a better feeling which I find in glue effect rubbers, secondly I want a consistent performance from the sponge over a much longer period of time, and lastly and least importantly would be an increase in speed over what I already have. If there comes a time where I feel using short pips is holding me back then I will not hesitate to switch back to inverted. Switching from short pips to inverted is not a difficult transition at all. In fact, I see short pips as a good tool for strengthening my backhand should I ever feel the need to switch back which I do no see in the near or even medium future. For now though, I want a nice, soft, lively sponge to avoid that dull feeling I'm getting now. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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NL is right. Spin is crucial whenever you step away from the table, so with inverted you won't have this problem. Regarding the speed and spin of SP rubbers, the 2 most important things at our level (2000-2200) are variation and consistency (not speed and power). You will always be able to add more speed and spin with slower rubbers, but not with fast ones, as there's no "low gear" with such speed-glued effect SPs. The key to add more power is to use your wrist more by relaxing it as much as you can just prior to contact (same as badminton). The Spectol you've been using is fine for fast countering but just not spinny enough for my taste for service, pushes and returns. You'll need exceptional fundamentals to master Spectol...it's not a forgiving rubber if you don't have the speed and footwork to stay in front of the ball. A spinny medium-speed SP like Challenger Attack is much more versatile and forgiving. |
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Yes but like I was saying, an increase in speed is the least important attribute that I'm seeking. I'm looking for something with more of a glued feeling and for it to remain consistently. I like the way it plays but the feeling of an unglued Spectol is dull and numb. This is what I'm trying to avoid. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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OK, I see that you use the 1.8mm version of Spectol 21 instead of the more common 2.15mm that I've used. In this case I think your main problem is lack of spin, as Spectol 21 can't really generate enough spin of its own, and the lack of speed due to thinner sponge makes this problem even more obvious. The Challenger Attack 1.9 in black will be a real upgrade for you, imho...
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Yes I'm using the 1.8mm sponge because I want it to remain under the thickness limit after boosting. Falco Tempo long booster really makes it noticeably thicker and the 2.15mm version would expand too much. I loved the way it played for the first month of boosting but by the second month the tuning has mostly worn off and it just feels like a very different rubber. I'd like something that feels like a boosted Spectol 21 but can retain it permanently or semi-permanently instead of the 1 month I currently get before it degrades.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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a pips with less spin is more unstable i think the solution is booster EV used by wujiaduo, vo101 is used by some top juniors in the german team i dont know if normal spectol will be better for pènhold or the speed version any experience, we should make a forum where we can chat about this cant wait for replies! I use 889 with soft sponge and its very handy, less spin more trouble for the oponnent
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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It's hard to argue with how equipment feels in someone's hand, but feel is largely like taste. It can and does change over time.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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I don't know anything about Mizuno equipment. In trying to look up information about the 3 Mizuno booster short pips I found almost nothing. I've only found that EV has vertical alignment while SA and HP have horizontal alignment. There's nothing on their other characteristics and differences. I'd need more information before I purchased them. I tried VO 101 and I didn't like the material the topsheet was made of. It felt slick and plasticy making it more of like a tensor medium pip. bbkon, in my searches through various threads about glue effect short pips you always seem to have made appearances in them. You must have tried many different glue effect short pips. Which have you tried? Have you tried any of the Mizuno pips you mentioned? Have you tried any of the Hexer pips that I'm starting to lean towards? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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FlatHitter
Super Member Joined: 10/14/2014 Location: modesto ca. Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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This might help....Should You Play With Short Pips in Table Tennis?
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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What am I supposed to gain from this? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to look at relevant to the topic of this thread about speed glue effect short pips. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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FlatHitter
Super Member Joined: 10/14/2014 Location: modesto ca. Status: Offline Points: 173 |
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Im not trying to be rude, but Im not shure what your looking for, and I dont think you do either.
the information your trying to obtain has been put in front of you by some qualified table tennis players. every brand that has been tried and are currently being used by hi-level players have been brought to your attention, there is no "magic rubber" speed glue...boosters...it's all good, but you have to try it, then see what works for YOU...not somebody else's combination. we all play different, that is part of the reason for the many different rubbers. |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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But I do know exactly what I'm looking for. A short pips topsheet similar to Spectol (medium to medium high spin) with a glue effect sponge that is as soft as possible. A few of the suggestions meet the criteria and a few don't. However, I'm not willing to buy hundreds of dollars worth of rubber sheets to find the best match. Though to say that I don't know what I'm looking for is quite far from the truth. |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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Da Baobei
Super Member Joined: 01/18/2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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Hmmm, maybe Mizuno Booster EV but I haven't played with it so I am not sure if it 100% fits the bill.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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What do you know about it? Where did you read any information? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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rulia
Beginner Joined: 11/26/2013 Location: Україна Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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tsp superspinpips 1.9-2.1.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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889
802 802.40 878 ritc bullet Paliofd Moristo Flare2 Hexer pip and force Blow+ 889..2 Patisuma2 joola expres Flare 2 Hammond speed Tyrano Spinpips21 Dolphin Soon booster ev. Generalspecific how was vo101 control and blocking compare to spectol..hammond fa speed could help you but they re tricky and strange tense and not spinny..which is harder to handle spectol or vo 101? I think that besides the pro pips nothing cant beat chinese boosted pips.blade also enhance the trickyness of the pip Edited by bbkon - 07/04/2015 at 3:52pm |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Blocking with VO 101 created a very fast, potent, dead ball. It was very difficult to control in all aspects but the blocking was the best part if you could handle it. Initiating attack, for me, was terrible. VO 101 has a somewhat slippery/plasticy topsheet and this makes it play like a medium pip. I strongly dislike medium pips. The lack of spin on medium pips/low spin short pips makes it very difficult to be consistent. So even though blocking with VO 101 provided a difficult ball for the opponent, the low spin, and poor control (and the fast sponge only made it worst) made landing attacks a rare occurrence. Pushing with with VO 101 (and medium pips) was also something I disliked about it. Pushing backspin provided a high dead ball that was very easy for the opponent to attack. For anyone reading this, now or in the future, VO 101 is probably the closest thing to a tensor medium pip. The demand for such a rubber is low so I doubt anything better than VO 101 will ever come out any time soon. So if you happen to be looking for a fast, glue effect medium pip, then get VO 101. Otherwise steer clear. Spectol provides much more control and when boosted, provides an equal amount of speed while still retaining much more control. bbkon, how soon will you try Booster EV? I await your impressions on baited breath. For now though, can you tell me about the Hexer pips you tried? How did they play? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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flamingmdn
Super Member Joined: 04/07/2014 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 148 |
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Give Spinlord Degu a try. It meets all your requirements. The sponge is soft and springy & spin is medium (just a bit higher than Spectol).
I used it before Spectol 21 and moved to Spectol just because I wanted something more 'linear'.
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Gewo Sensus Carbo Speed | Vega X
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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Interesting, how does Degu play? Could you compare Degu and Spectol 21 a bit more. Are the sponge hardnesses similar? Is the speed glue effect high on Degu and is it durable? How much faster is it than Spectol 21? What advantages and disadvantages do they have over each other? |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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