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Non Butterfly Arylate/Kevlar Carbon Blade

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    Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:25pm
Hi folks,

I am looking for a non butterfly brand Arylate carbon OFF or OFF+ blade. 

OR

I am also looking for a non butterfly brand Kevlar carbon OFF or OFF+ blade.

Any input is appreciated.


Edited by ahsq - 09/28/2015 at 6:31pm
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote khmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:30pm
http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/neottec-kevlar-special
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:37pm
DOnic Baum Espirit (a little slower)
Xiom Stradivarius
Stratus Samsonov Carbon
729 V6
Andro Kinetic CF
Victas Firefall AC
Yinhe T7

Among those, I have hit with the Espirit, the Strad, the V6  and the Stratus.  All could be used by a Viscaria or TBS fan without a whole lot of adjustment but I still prefer a Viscaria.

Doing a little web browsing, there are a lot of Chinese companies like Sanwei and Dawei who make very inexpensive versions, around $40.  I don't know what they are like.  And DHS makes one for $495.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:50pm
Baal beat me to it...

Xiom Stradivarius
Tibhar Stratus Samsovov CB
Yinhe T7, T8 (arylate clones)

Playing with a Tibhar SSCB now and it's on the low end of OFF, maybe OFF-. Limba outer ply.

I tried Xiom Stradivarius once briefly and it had a more hollow feel to it. It's suppose to be a TBS/TBALC clone. Nice square ST handle.

Edited by DreiZ - 09/28/2015 at 6:55pm
Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm

Chopper:
Stratus Power Defense 85g
FH: Hybrid K3 max
BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm

USATT: 1725
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:53pm
Your best bet are Doubleday blades. They used to be the OEM for Butterfly and their "Winner" blade looks a lot like a Timo Boll ALC.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 6:57pm
The Doubleday blades do look really nice but I have never tried one.

http://www.ping-pong.tw/index.php?cPath=24_151
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 7:01pm
I use one and like it a lot. I dislike koto so an Anegre ALC blade is a God send. Also much cheaper than a Butterfly blade. Quality packaging too with weight on the box.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 7:14pm
YinHe T-7 and T-8
YinHe V-14
TIBHAR Stratus Samsonov Carbon
STIGA CarboKev
Nittaku KCZ
JUIC Stellan Bengtsson Alpha
Sword Blue Feather
William Henzell Platinum
NEXY Arirang
NEXY Oscar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 7:19pm
Sword blue feather koto outers jlc instead of arylate. Its faster than viscaria but a great alternative blade as I have been told by many.
I will get one soon InshaAllah as a backup for my zxi.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 7:43pm
I have a D.D. Valiant Terminator for sale: combo blade  ZLC OFF + one side and ALC  OFF the other.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 7:50pm
There's also Andro Treiber K as a good option. Same composition (core and wood layers) of Timo Boll line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 8:06pm
I can only speak for Xiom Stradivarius, its supposedly aimed to be a clone of TBS, however uses Aramid carbon instead of Arylate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

I can only speak for Xiom Stradivarius, its supposedly aimed to be a clone of TBS, however uses Aramid carbon instead of Arylate


As a material,  the main difference between Aramid and Arylate is that Arylate is more flexible.  I didn't find the Strad to be unusually stiff, and it had a lot in common with a TBS or Viscaria, but I thought the head of the Strad was a little heavier than I like.  And DreiZ is exactly right, it feels just touch hollow compared to TBS or Viscaria.  It is a pretty good blade though.  I think a lot of people would like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

YinHe T-7 and T-8
YinHe V-14
TIBHAR Stratus Samsonov Carbon
STIGA CarboKev
Nittaku KCZ
JUIC Stellan Bengtsson Alpha
Sword Blue Feather
William Henzell Platinum
NEXY Arirang
NEXY Oscar


I have played with the Juic.  It is not a bad blade but really plays quite differently from Butterfly ALC blades.  I hit with a KCZ too, but a long time ago, and I really can't remember what it was like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by asifgunz asifgunz wrote:

Sword blue feather koto outers jlc instead of arylate. Its faster than viscaria but a great alternative blade as I have been told by many.
I will get one soon InshaAllah as a backup for my zxi.

I had to google this. I learned something today. I enjoy learning things.
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by asifgunz asifgunz wrote:

Sword blue feather koto outers jlc instead of arylate. Its faster than viscaria but a great alternative blade as I have been told by many.
I will get one soon InshaAllah as a backup for my zxi.

I had to google this. I learned something today. I enjoy learning things.


that philosophy will take you very far in life ^_^


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 11:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 12:33am
perhaps speedplay will stop by and wax eloquent over the wavestone


The Wavestone was my first composite blade and it will always hold a place in my EJ heart

when I wrote speedplay's name I wanted to put an "@" in front of it so he would be tagged and see it.... and then I realized I'm not on Instagram


Edited by the_theologian - 09/29/2015 at 12:35am
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 2:47am
Tibhar CCY Unlimited/Drinkhall Powerspin Carbon/Freitas
TSP Besty/Campione
Nimatsu Incentive Aramid
Life is too short for defensive play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomkei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:39am
yinhe vis-a 
xiom vega euro,sigma2pro,el-p
xiom vega pro
mizutani zlc,t05fx,r53
mizutani zlc,h8mid,rakza9

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 11:01am
Thanks for all the inputs, as it turns out most of these blades are Kevlar carbon or RX-carbon (what is it?)

Are these more ARYLATE carbon blades besides the T7, T8, DD Winner?
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 11:58am
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

Thanks for all the inputs, as it turns out most of these blades are Kevlar carbon or RX-carbon (what is it?)

Are these more ARYLATE carbon blades besides the T7, T8, DD Winner?

ButterflyGaraydia ALC5856.9HinokiArylate-Carbon (ALC)KiriArylate-Carbon (ALC)Hinoki    
ButterflyIolite Neo5807.2HinokiArylate-Carbon (ALC)KiriArylate-Carbon (ALC)Hinoki    
ButterflyKong Linghui Special5846.5HinokiArylate-Carbon (ALC)KiriArylate-Carbon (ALC)Hinoki    
DaweiWavestone5907.8LimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)AyousArylate-Carbon (ALC)Limba    
DonicWaldner Carbopower5856.2HinokiArylate-Carbon (ALC)KiriArylate-Carbon (ALC)Hinoki    
ButterflyInnerforce ALC7885.9LimbaLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)AyousArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaLimba  
ButterflyMichael Maze7895.9LimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaAyousLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Limba  
ButterflyTimo Boll ALC7845.7KotoArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Koto  
ButterflyTimo Boll Spirit7895.7KotoArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Koto  
ButterflyViscaria7905.8KotoArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Koto  
ButterflyZhang Jike7895.7KotoArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Koto  
DHSHurricane Long 57945.9LimbaAyousArylate-Carbon (ALC)AyousArylate-Carbon (ALC)AyousLimba  
NexyOscar7866.0HinokiArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Hinoki  
TibharFreitas7846.0LimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)AyousKiriAyousArylate-Carbon (ALC)Limba  
XVTDragon ALC7900.0KotoArylate-Carbon (ALC)LimbaKiriLimbaArylate-Carbon (ALC)Koto  
Perform another search
  

http://stervinou.net/ttbdb/liste.php


Edited by lineup32 - 09/29/2015 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 11:58am
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

Thanks for all the inputs, as it turns out most of these blades are Kevlar carbon or RX-carbon (what is it?)

Are these more ARYLATE carbon blades besides the T7, T8, DD Winner?

Thing is, Butterfly sort of coined the term "arylate". Major brands have their own versions of composite material that will act similar to arylate. They will name it something else in order to avoid the word "arylate" but describe it almost the same way as the butterfly alternative.

However, there are brands that use the term "arylate" in their blades. I'm not sure exactly if their arylate is the same composition as Butterfly arylate but they are intended to sell as cheaper alternatives or "clones" to butterfly blades.

Gambler Arylate Carbon, LKT 168 Arylate Carbon, Tulpe Arylate Carbon, DAWEI GTO Arylate Carbon, SANWEI F3 Arylate Carbon, YINHE T7 & T8, etc... There are many more if you google the term "Arylate Carbon".

In terms of Kevlar vs Arylate vs Aramid vs -insert composite material here-, I found a thread about it...

"Ignoring the difference in woods surrounding the composite, arylate (aka Vectran, resin polymer) is harder and heavier than aramid (aromatic polymide). Kevlar (para-aramid) appears to be between the two, though probably closer to aramid in terms of hardness. Zylon is harder but lighter than all 3 but apparently breaks down with exposure to water (vapour or whatever) after a long time, though this is a moot concern as it's sandwiched in the wood.

The carbon layer does the same thing in all of these blades. Stiffens it up, makes it faster and more stable.

If we're still talking in terms of an arylate-carbon vs an aramid carbon (vs a kevlar carbon vs zylon carbon) blade with identical wood construction, you can expect the following, though I must stress the point that the differences are minimal, and the wood construction will make a larger difference. That being said, the differences are noticeable.

Hard -> Soft
Zylon Carbon
Arylate Carbon
Kevlar Carbon
Aramid Carbon

Speedwise, they're pretty much as above, but as I said earlier, you'll find that the composition of the blade in question as well as the individual blade itself make far more of a difference.

Feel wise, they're all pretty dead, but in order least to most vibration, I'd rank them like so:
Arylate Carbon
Aramid Carbon
Zylon Carbon
Kevlar Carbon

Of course, it's a bit hard to rank objectively as the blades are different. "
Quote from: "Peter C"

Link to thread: http://www.affordablett.com.au/smf/index.php?topic=202.0




Edited by DreiZ - 09/29/2015 at 12:01pm
Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm

Chopper:
Stratus Power Defense 85g
FH: Hybrid K3 max
BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm

USATT: 1725
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 3:55pm
does anyone has an experience with 

Nittaku Flyatt Carbon Pro?

I am trying to get a Euro/Japan blade with Arylate, the QC of chinese blades is like a lottery ticket right?


Edited by ahsq - 09/29/2015 at 3:57pm
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:11pm
Never seen a blade that comes with edge protection before. Cool looking.

If this helps, http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/nittaku-flyatt-carbon-pro

This review for this blade is in Russian, roughly translated: feel close to TBS, balance towards head, no vibrations - which I like. Played with T80 and Haifu Whale 2.

"Купил по акции. Превосходное основание. По ощущениям близко к TBS. Баланс чуть в лопасть, мне нравится, вибрация отсутствует - чему я рад. Играю Tenergy 80 справа, Haifu whale 2 слева. Все устраивает. Спасибо tt11 за быструю доставку и подбор веса"




Edited by DreiZ - 09/29/2015 at 4:13pm
Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm

Chopper:
Stratus Power Defense 85g
FH: Hybrid K3 max
BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm

USATT: 1725
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Never seen a blade that comes with edge protection before. Cool looking

Here is another one:
Dr. Neubauer Hercules
And it also fits the overall topic/question.
OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:22pm
lol DreiZ, we looked at the same sources both times.
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

lol DreiZ, we looked at the same sources both times.


Lol no no, I looked this blade up after you posted about it. It piqued my interest because it's a relatively cheap composite blade from Nittaku which is known for their quality. Thought the translated review might help you abit.
Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm

Chopper:
Stratus Power Defense 85g
FH: Hybrid K3 max
BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm

USATT: 1725
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

perhaps speedplay will stop by and wax eloquent over the wavestone


The Wavestone was my first composite blade and it will always hold a place in my EJ heart

when I wrote speedplay's name I wanted to put an "@" in front of it so he would be tagged and see it.... and then I realized I'm not on Instagram

The wavestone is a thick blade, and would be harder to loop than the other 5-6mm thick blades mentioned. 


Edited by rocketman222 - 09/29/2015 at 4:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2015 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

lol DreiZ, we looked at the same sources both times.


Lol no no, I looked this blade up after you posted about it. It piqued my interest because it's a relatively cheap composite blade from Nittaku which is known for their quality. Thought the translated review might help you abit.

yea lol i searched the exact pages about them 
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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