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red rubbers vs black rubbers durability ? |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Posted: 07/22/2016 at 2:45pm |
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i noticed especially in esn rubbers (EL-P, MX-P,M1,.....)that red rubbers deteriorate faster than black rubbers and i experienced this with 4 new sheets of tibhar evolution el-p and mx-p
i glued the black mx-p and the red mx-p of the same thickness (max) on the same time on my blade and after one month the red mx-p rubber becomes completely gripless and dead however the black mx-p continue playind very fine for about 3 and half month i experienced this twice did anyone experience this huge difference in red vs black rubber durability issue as mine or it is just a bad sheet ? thanks in advance |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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I see you play black on both sides as per your signature? I wonder if red is what you use on your FH? I have not found a difference in rubber durability based on color.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Yes, there is a discernible difference between red and black when it comes durability, despite what manufacturers claim.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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adishorul
Super Member Joined: 08/19/2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 368 |
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I also found some differences between red and black but mainly in the way of how they are playing.
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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very good notice i have a red rubber fear syndrome 4 red new sheets deteriorate in the same manner that 's why i swear not to play with red rubber ever again i played twice with the red rubbers on both my backhand and forehand in order to notice the durability and exclude any other factors and in both situation the 4 sheets deteriorate very very very soon as compared to the black rubbers Edited by manraid - 07/22/2016 at 3:49pm |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Black rubber lasting longer is plausible since black rubber typically use some kind of carbon black for their coloring. Carbon black (of different grain sizes no doubt) is used in car tires to increase durability. That's why car tires are black and not other colors. That said, since they don't formulate TT rubber with high mileage in mind they certainly probably aren't aiming at using carbon black for purposes other than color. So the effect is probably not great with most rubbers. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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i have read somewhere that the reason of low durability of red rubbers is contributed to the dye in it
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Red rubber is less durable due most likely to the silica filler(an alternative to carbon black). It is known to reduce durability.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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I've noticed that with my MXPs too. I use black on FH and red always goes first in terms of grip.
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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by the way i read on table tennis db on hurricane 3 neo reviews that red hurricane rubbers deteriorate faster than black rubbers and it isn't exculsively in euro\jap rubbers
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I don't think it is the presence of dye so much as it is the absence of carbon black. BTW, some rubbers (such as Butterfly Orthodox) use other fillers (clay?) and have an opaque look to them. These fillers may also be used to color the rubber and could affect the rubber's durability. Most inverted rubbers, however, seem to get their color from dyes and are transparent/translucent.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I use red on the forehand and my red rubbers lose grip faster for that reason. The same used to happen when I used black on the forehand side (black used to go first). I have never felt the rubbers play differently or lasted over different time periods and I think some people are just too consumed with aesthetics. But it is quite possible that I am biased and wrong.
Edited by NextLevel - 07/22/2016 at 5:32pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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i used my backhand more than my forehand and my backhand black rubbers lasts longer than my forehand red rubbers for 4 times , coincidence?
Edited by manraid - 07/22/2016 at 5:34pm |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I think that if there are differences that they are subtle. So it would be easy to amplify them in our imaginations or to completely miss real differences. It also probably varies depending on the rubber.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Sure. But again, it is very different if you are focused on aesthetics vs. Spin. To me,a rubber wearing out means I killed the topsheet until I see the pimples underneath. It doesn't mean the topsheet looks old or feels smoother or has dried out. It takes me the same amount of time to kill both red and black topsheets. I guess also having a coach who could generate decent spin with a dead topsheet changes your focus and priorities as well. But I guess you could share pictures and change your mind. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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when my 4 red rubber sheets was weared i took them to my coach and he was convinced that i left them in my car in sun which wasnot happened (from the degree of deterioration he couldn't imagine that my rubbers wears so quickly in that shape ) and he gave my rubbers to 2 of his highly ranked players and all of their shots went into net
the condition of my rubbers were very bad to the degree that he thought finally i put something like aceton or other things that damaged my rubber which in fact don't happen not one sheet or two but four by the way rubber to be weared to me mean= rubber has no grip to make topspin and could barely do drive with one shot pass over the net out of 5 shots Edited by manraid - 07/22/2016 at 6:17pm |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I have not had a rubber wearing out on me to the degree that I can't make a to spin shot with it in less than 2 months. You probably need to learn better rubber care.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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i do care my rubber very well and if i consider my careless manner to the red rubber how about my black rubbers
careless manner(if found ) is a fixed factor applied to both rubbers either red or black why black last longer than black i don't argue to prove my point is correct or other opinion are bad i do agree with some aspects of your opinion but i really wonder because what happened happened to 4 red rubber sheets and i think some members accept my point here and noticed what i found may be it is coincidence (which i found in best condition to be extremely extremely rare ) |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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... this is highly unusual...
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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Yes. BTW, this thread is about "durability", however some differences may exist between how a red sheet plays vs how a black one does. I have noticed that for Hammond Pro Beta in 2.1 mm, where black sheet was very playable while the red one was harder and had a less grippy topsheet. Both were purchased at the same time, but both looked like they had spent some time on shelf at the vendor before I got them. It might just be a different way to experience a durability problem; it seems unlikely the sheets were that different when still fresh.
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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I've also noticed something else with my black and red MXP's when boosting them with FTL. My black sheets always have a little bit more "tension" and take a bit longer for the dome to go down compared to the red.
Not related, but just an observation. Can't tell any difference during play after boosting between the two but im sure if its there its very very veeeeery minor. Edited by DreiZ - 07/23/2016 at 11:32am |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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during play there is no difference between red and black except for the red being somehow alittle bit softer in fell compared to the black which is firm alittle ,the issue is the red rubber durability i noticed in 4 sheets is very low compared to the black rubber.
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Since you HAVE to play with one side of red (unless you go j/k penhold with paint sheet) you are up "paint sheet" creek right? Better pick you red poison and put it on your less used side.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I think the fact that he is using black on both sides is fine as he clearly plays for fun. As long as people are upfront about their level and investment into the sport when saying these things and doing these things, I would take it for what it is.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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i don't have to play with one side red and as next level stated that i plays for fun however i play this sport because i respect it alot and table tennis is not just a sport for me it is also a therapy ( since i undergo a diet regime from 160 Kg to 100 kg and thanks for table tennis for making me preserve my weight at that level otherwise if i didnot practice it for a week u can say i can gain about 5 Kg at least per week )
sorry for getting away from the post title but it is something i must say thanks for everybody opinion |
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Hopefully the new discipline of table tennis to be introduced this August will put this "colorism" to rest.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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manraid
Super Member Joined: 08/29/2013 Location: any where Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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i hope so zeio , we need some democracy in this game
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MJ SZLC ST
FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
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