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Donic Ovtcharov True Carbon |
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notgooord
Member Joined: 11/21/2016 Location: teri Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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Buy something else, something different.
Otc is donic copy of viscaria. You are an ej. You have 5 viscarias. |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Sounds like you selected a very light blade weight? You should try get a heavier one. It is not slow.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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my thoughts exactly, got another one 88g. the setup is now a bit head heavy but more power. will see how it works in games.
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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Been using this for a few weeks with MXP and El-S rubbers. Don't have too much to compare it to but it's definitely faster than anything I've used (Stiga Maplewood V and Rossi Emotion). Can finally smash and play far from the table. The sweet spot feels small on smashing though. Not sure if this is normal for a high end blade. I didn't really notice this with my other blades but didn't get to smash often with them. But when you hit the ball on the sweet spot it can really fly.
Edited by WeebleWobble - 12/12/2016 at 12:39pm |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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I have 3 DOTC blades and actually found that it has quite a big sweet spot - at least as big as that of the TB-ALC / Viscaria.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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definitely a good balanced off (or off-) blade
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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One thing that surprises me quite a bit is how much faster my heavy DTC is. (By heavy, I mean about 192 grams with two sheets of MX-P on it). Substantially faster than a lot of Viscaria blades, and in the OFF+ range as I understand it. The light one (quite a bit lighter, about 185 grams with the rubber) is noticeably slower, in the OFF range. But I would never call it an OFF- blade!!!!!
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Baal: I think that the DOTC has at least a bit more carbon in its fiber than BTY's ALC fiber. I feel that on harder hits, DOTC is faster than BTY ALC blades of same weights even if it is a bit thinner.
I have 3 DOTC blades at the moment. I feel that DOTC is 90% BTY ALC blade feel and 10% JRE feel: it is a bit softer than my BTY ALC blades (thus spinner on slow loops & in serves) but slightly faster and slightly less dwelly / spinny on powerloops (implying more carbon in its fiber).
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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no argument here, my setups are 176g and the second around 185 (can't remember exactly) so it is understandable that I would describe them as off- to off.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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You can feel that the carbon layer is thicker? Really? You can feel that? It is true that my various ALC blades feel non-identical (even the ones of the same model), but I certainly can't attribute it to that -- especially when we are talking about things made out of wood, especially blades as similar as these. I don't have x-ray vision either, or spidey sense, and I don't use The Force, and I can't make myself invisible. Actually, from a design perspective, a blade that had more arylate in it would probably have even less high frequency vibration and might therefore have more of a feeling of dwell. (And again, the thing that feels like dwell is not actually that, and may or many not be related to it). I don't buy into a lot of EJ-speak, frankly. If you like ALC blades, whether or not you like this one is going to come down to getting one in a weight you like, and if you like the shape of the handle. That's it. And the price is good. |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Whats the lightest DOTC you guys have/seen so far?
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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No. The test was as follows:
I had the opportunity to try out a TB-ALC set-up with same rubbers as I had on my DOTC (the blade was a club member's - I took it home to glue MX-P / OVE as a favor for him). His blade was within a gram of mine. I tried it at home on my robot on the same incoming ball coming at the same spot - 20 balls one blade and the 20 balls using the other. Rinse and repeat with same FH stroke for each blade. This took about 10 minutes. My non-scientific conclusion was based on what I saw there - at the other end of the table. Specifically, while, on slow & medium strokes, trajectory is similar with both blades, the arc gets relatively longer with DOTC on powerloops. The rebound off the blade seems to be of a very similar velocity but the ball dips less at the other end. So, with DOTC, for that stroke, I had tendency to brush a bit more sometimes where as I did not need to with the TB-ALC. Finally, I did talk with the designer of the DOTC (while it is made in China by someone else, it is designed in Germany for Donic by another company) for possibly their designing a custom blade with DOTC plies but with a custom handle. While I haven't finalized the order yet, the talk did veer into Arylate / Carbon ratio and I did not take it there. So yes, 'feel' was a slightly imprecise & incorrect word but to me, 'conclude' was a bit too strong. X-Ray vision? Spidey sense? The Force? Invisibility? You OK out there today, champ?
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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The force in Slevin is strong...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I learned recently that one can buy carbon/vectran weaves from more than one company, and with somewhat different weaves and compositions. The weaves are not marketed by the same people who produce Vectran fibers (Btfly calls Vectran by the name Arylate, for some reason). So it is certainly possible that the composite layer is slightly different in the OTC than in a Btfly. If it is, I just don't think it matters all that much. I have a ZJK-ALC of the same weight as my lighter OTC. Both with ST. They are truly indistinguishable to play with. Actually those two are much more like each other than my two OTCs are. And I have a pretty good feeling for subtle differences in the way ALC blades feel. I may not know much, but that I know.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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The Spidey sense in Baal is not weak...
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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But not as strong as people who can tell whether Jun Mitzutani is playing with a ZLC or a sZLC blade by watching the way a ball comes of his blade on a Youtube video. That kind of EJ knowledge requires The Force. I sit in awe of the EJ Master who can do that.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70780&PID=929964&title=mj-zlc-mj-szlc#929964 |
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BaiMile
Member Joined: 10/10/2011 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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Hey Baal, is throw angle of OTC is same like of Viscaria/ALC/TBS?
I like high throw, if OTC is low then I'd skip it.
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Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Pretty much the same I think. While the blade is not absolutely identical to Viscaria or TB-ALC, one could argue that the OTC is still pretty much a shameless copy.
i actually thought they were pretty much identical but some people have posted photos showing that the top ply of OTC is slightly thinner, and slevin thinks the ALC layer may be slightly different, which I suppose is possible (I certainly can't say he's wrong from any solid knowledge). In terms of playing, if you like Butterfly ALC, and get an OTC at the weight you like, then you will probably be happy with OTC if you like the handle. Bear in mind that even two Viscarias may not play exactly the same way. But they will be close. So will this. |
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AKThu
Beginner Joined: 12/28/2016 Location: Myanmar Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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How about OTC FL Handle ? I want to know it . Like Viscaria , Timo boll ALC or Stiga Master FL ?
Anyone tried it ? |
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WeebleWobble
Super Member Joined: 07/07/2012 Status: Offline Points: 490 |
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I have flared but never used those other blades. It's pretty thick, and I have fairly large hands. |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 4230 |
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OTC handle is slightly thinner (smaller) than viscaria, probably similar to TB alc
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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If I was looking to end my blade quest would you say I should buy Timo Boll ALC or try OTC for about $30 cheaper? And is OTC more close to a Viscaria in feel and gameplay or Timo Boll ALC? Thanks |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I think the OTC's FL handle is better than Viscaria's. The Viscaria felt a little longer to me and a little thinner / rounder towards the blade face. Even if the OTC's handle is 0.5 mm thinner( I am not quite sure about that), it is a bit thicker in the upper part and feels a little shorter to me, which results in less head heaviness. |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I would say the two Butterfly blades you mentioned are closer to each other. They both have a slightly muted ALC feel. The OTC has less of that mutedness. |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Do you get a lot of vibration with OTC? And which one would you say is faster if we were to compare at the same weight: OTC, TB ALC, Viscaria? I'm guessing it would be OTC as others have stated it has more carbon in it. Thanks Edited by unstopabl3 - 02/26/2017 at 9:22am |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I would say the OTC vibrates more than the other two - when you commit to the shot. It feels a little more springy too. You can think of it as a slight upgrade in terms of speed and feel. The speed difference is slight but noticeable, it would be better to say that the OTC lifts the ball and thrusts it forward more than the Boll ALC or Viscaria. Also, I think the balance of the OTC is better and follows your hand more readily than the Viscaria, hence you gain a fraction of a second on each shot. These thing add up and make it a little faster. Bear in mind, I am yet to try out a really heavy OTC, my FL is 82 gr and the ST is lighter than that. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Save your money until you develop strong technique unless you just like collecting blades (which I suspect is the case) or resell at a modest loss. Just get a 5 ply all wood like Korbel or a TB AlC until then. Such popular blades are good benchmarks for establishing technique and switching if necessary.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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ALC blades actually require solid technique. I get saving money, so if you're not sure, why pay so much more for TB ALC? Because it comes from Btfly? Really, there is no single way I can see in which you are likely to get a better blade that way than by buying the DTC for a bunch less. They are extremely similar blades designed for exactly the same kind of player of equal build quality and similar (nearly identical) composition. If you dislike or play badly with a DTC then you will have the same problems with a TB ALC of the same weight.
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Maybe NL suggested that due to the fact that TB ALC has a proven history of being a blade which can be used by every player from amateur to pros and instead of "trying out" OTC to see if someone likes it or not and then spending $130-$150 again to get TB ALC, one should just save the $90 and get TB ALC in the first place. I will try out my club mates TB ALC and see if I like it before buying it and wasting money this time. Btw are these blades good enough if I get one in 85-88 grams or will it be much slower than the blades in the 90g range? Keeping in mind that the average weight for TB ALC advertised on many websites is 85g. Thanks |
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