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HRT 2091 Clipper review

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    Posted: 01/10/2017 at 5:27pm
This post has been removed because of the controversial ethics involved in the making of this blade.

Edited by mog1111 - 01/13/2017 at 6:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 2:11am
this is a great clipper clone, at an even more reasonable price, thanks for the review!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 2:45am
Ridiculous and shameless cloning amounts to theft of intellectual property by HRT. I mean seriously, you don't see anything wrong with this? I guess since you are not Stiga it is ok?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 3:28am
Thanks for the review. What TNHA means?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 4:38am
Tried that 2 years ago but with a lighter hrt clipper. Seems slower and feels softer than the regular clipper. It costs half less though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Ridiculous and shameless cloning amounts to theft of intellectual property by HRT.


I had not actually thought about the fact it is a clone until you mention it, or the ethics of this. Hmmm!
However the other side of the coin might be why do I Have to pay £65 RRP for a stiga, when the product can clearly be made and shipped for £12.99.

To be fair, my main thoughts were to try a 7 ply blade without wasting more money. If I liked it I would probably have bought a Tibhar Force Pro or Clipper anyway.

Stiga QC is known to be quite poor.

Do you feel I should take the post down as I am essentially promoting Cheap clone blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:02am
TNHA is the ebay shop where I bought it. I think they are eaching.net.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:07am
Last night I played a handicap match with the HRT. Played fairly well once I got going. I seemed to hit several forehands into the net, however I think this is just because the bat is a little more direct than my previous TSPW or Ligna. It is quite quick I felt and this was good and bad.
My serves I felt were better, especially the fast spinnier ones.
Pushing tight game was definitely a touch more difficult.

Now my Sanwei Target National has arrived for my FH

So now I have 3 blades to choose from;

TSPW
Ligna
HRT 2091

backhand is sorted with H3N for now
but now I have to decide stick with H3N fh or chuck the Sanwei Target National on. It has blue sponge which might make me play as well as a top Chinese pro?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 7:57am
The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:23am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.


Seriously, even if it is not patented, making a blade with that appearance and even calling it a Clipper, it is absurd.  Grotesque.  Lacking in an iota of shame. 

Quite simply, it is wrong. 

Working as a faculty member at a university, my colleagues and I often find that students from Asia, and very specifically from India and China, are more likely to have no sense whatsoever of what constitutes plagiarism and often see nothing wrong with it.  There are some cultural and historical reasons for this, and the problem is maybe diminishing with time, but it still exists. (Also it is not a problem that exists solely with Asian students.  However, the issue is clearly given less emphasis to undergraduates there, so when they get to graduate programs here, they are not careful). We have to point out very specifically what plagiarism is, and what the consequences are, and an unfortunate number of students find their graduate careers cut short because they fail to learn the lesson.  HRT has the same mindset as these students.  And I still say it is truly messed up, and again, I find it really incongruent that someone in the UK who is concerned about what an illegal serve MIGHT teach his child has no problem at all with this. 

I have a big problem with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:32am
Mog1111,

I am going to try to explain my viewpoint since you seem receptive to listening. 

As far as the ethics of Stiga's pricing, how many blades do you think they sell?  How many people do they employ?  Do those people deserve a working wage? Would you prefer that they hire people in Europe, or would you be ok if they just offloaded the whole operation to China?  Also, at some point they had to put some effort into developing that blade?  Remember, the costs of production are more than just the wood and the machining.

Let's say it was your company making -- whatever.  And some company in China just cloned it after you put your effort into developing it, plus had to pay your employees in the UK to produce it?

I say, just buy a Stiga Clipper. 

Anticipating some additional discussion on this, it becomes a fine line as to when a clone crosses a line.  Stiga certainly doesn't own the idea of  7-py wood blades, even ones with red wood layers.  Yinhe makes a lot of blades that are similar to other makers.  But the handles have subtly different shapes, they give them different names, etc.  They are not identical.  Doubleday, once an OEM for Btfly, also makes a lot of blades that have a lot of the properties of, say, a TB-ALC blade.  But they are not absolutely identical, although some of the design motifs hint at what they are doing.  They also have a few designs that are entirely their own.

HRT has crossed the line, and they do it for nearly every blade they make.  They have clearly targeted Stiga, for the Chinese market, where Stiga has no legal recourse.   (Copying of almost anything seems ok there).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:40am
Just thinking, somebody may bring up the issue of OSP blades.  Aren't they ripping off Stiga also?  The answer is not really.  They express admiration for Stiga blades and the way they were assembled twenty years ago, and they try use those same methods and wood choices to try to recreate aspects of that experience now.  Stiga themselves no longer make blades that way.  The OSP blades have different names and in fact they are not perfect clones of even the older Stiga blades.  They don't copy Stiga's design motifs (although Yinhe managed to rip off OSP's design).  And they produce many new blades of their own design. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 8:45am
Yes all valid points. It's difficult to argue with them! Now I feel really guilty like I should not use the HRT anymore.
And as someone who is severely underpaid for the skillset I have, I know where you are coming from!

As I said if I was convinced by 7ply I would most likely by a Force Pro anyway as I like Tibhar stuff generally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 9:16am
mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 10:08am
I'm still flitting between that and my Andro ligna.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

The comparison of illegal services and cloned blades is quite laughable. Is the stiga clipper patented? "Intellectual property of a 7 ply blade?" Hilarious if satire, ridiculous if serious.


Seriously, even if it is not patented, making a blade with that appearance and even calling it a Clipper, it is absurd.  Grotesque.  Lacking in an iota of shame. 

Quite simply, it is wrong. 

Working as a faculty member at a university, my colleagues and I often find that students from Asia, and very specifically from India and China, are more likely to have no sense whatsoever of what constitutes plagiarism and often see nothing wrong with it.  There are some cultural and historical reasons for this, and the problem is maybe diminishing with time, but it still exists. (Also it is not a problem that exists solely with Asian students.  However, the issue is clearly given less emphasis to undergraduates there, so when they get to graduate programs here, they are not careful). We have to point out very specifically what plagiarism is, and what the consequences are, and an unfortunate number of students find their graduate careers cut short because they fail to learn the lesson.  HRT has the same mindset as these students.  And I still say it is truly messed up, and again, I find it really incongruent that someone in the UK who is concerned about what an illegal serve MIGHT teach his child has no problem at all with this. 

I have a big problem with it.
First of all, I am Chinese, but I am with Baal. Ya, HRT can have a 7 ply blade and says it is "Stiga Clipper Wood Clone". However, it is wrong to copy the outward appearances exactly. It is hard to distinguish HRT from Stiga if I cover the HRT label.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.

Of course, the Avalox dealer has a vested interest in that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Speaking of getting a clipper, its a much better bet to get a P700 or BT777 from Avalox, as the current Avalox blades are made using the same Stiga tech that was used in the 80s, this is the information i got from my friend Diego of Westside TTC who is the north american dealer for avalox.

Of course, the Avalox dealer has a vested interest in that.

LOL true, however i have played both clipper and bt777 and the bt777 is clearly a better product IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:34pm
In what way is the avalox better?
And what am I supposed to do with the HRT's.
Even though they are clones it would be a crime against trees to throw them away and if I sell them that would make me a dealer in clone goods.
What am I supposed to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:55pm
Give them to some kids?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Give them to some kids?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

mog, thanks for seeing the points.

Actually, since you like the Clipper, you could just get one of those.  From Stiga!  One of the classic blades of all time, although a lot of people say the old ones are better.


I prefer Tibhar. I think a Samsonov Force Pro original would probably be better for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:00pm
Just use them. But now your consciousness has been raised. 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:09pm
The original Samsonov Force Pro is really OFF-. A personal favorite. But not a Clipper.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The original Samsonov Force Pro is really OFF-. A personal favorite. But not a Clipper.


What would the differences be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 6:16pm
It is still possible I will go back to TSPW, that depends on whether my fh will be satisfactory when I try my new Sanwei Target National which seems very nippy for a Chinese tacky rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 9:32am
I prefer composites but if someone said I had to use a new allwood I would probably go with TSPW or a blade from Soulspin. TSPW has a great feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Cho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 11:02am
Are you kidding me!

Use what you want, If I pay for a blade if I want to use it I'm going to use it.
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Are you going to stop using light bulbs.

Stop being so sensitive, in an artist world things can be called your own with only 3 changes.
Why pay more for an old design?

Better start coming up with something new.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2017 at 11:12am
What HRT is doing goes way beyond just using the idea of the Clipper composition.  They go so far as to call it a Clipper!  They borrow every single aspect of the blade appearance.  The only thing different is the plastic insert. 

It is utterly and completely pathetic.

But one thing is true, once you have bought the blade, you might as well use it.  No problem there.

My issue is that maybe you ought not to be promoting it for other people to buy.
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