Delete please

I agree with Andy and Patrick. 

Actually, I would like to add that their reviews are some of the most complete and best on the internet, and I have gotten a lot of useful information from them in recent years.  But it takes quite a bit of time to write one like that and they don't review every new product that becomes available.  Another thing about forums is that over the years you sort of figure out some people who's tastes are a bit similar to your own*, although ultimately there is no substitute for trying one yourself.

* My problem as a reviewer personally is that I am not enough of an EJ to be able to compare a new rubber/blade to very many others because I don't try that many.  I know ALC blades well.  And with rubber, if I know fairly quickly that I don't like something, than I don't spend enough time with it to really get to figure out why, so a lot of the time I don't bother to write anything, I often just give it away.  

Wow, I liked this review...Hope he post it back here.

I don't know what to make of this trend.

Whether it be the East or the West, I see folks post their reviews on forums pointing out this and that about this blade and that rubber. The next thing you see is the said equipment up for sale in the FS sub.

nevermind

Edited by bard romance - 02/27/2017 at 9:48am

reviews are subjective that is a fact but we have to take into account that blades and equipment have their own characteristics that make them fast or slow. it is always a common phrase when you hear people say" oh that depends on the user for it is subjective." that is only the human side of it, how about the blade properties or rubber properties that make them fast, spinny or slow. That is the one I am arguing about. A blade may be fast for a person and maybe faster for another especially when the range is all+ to off-. when you compare a blade that is off- and some would say it is off it can be considered as acceptable but when you compare a blade that is clearly off+ to an off-, come on now the differences are really huge.

AndySmith wrote: yogi_bear wrote: Bottomline, a blade is slow because it is really built slow or fast because it has materials that make it fast regardless of the one that uses it.  Yes, quite.  If everyone has the same range of strokes and plays the same way.  Which of course, they do not.  A close-in blocker/pusher/hitter might evaluate a bouncy off- (as labelled) blade as being faster than a softer off+ blade overall because they rarely play full strokes, or use a lot of power when away from the table.  Which is why it's so important to make it clear what your level and style is when you review things - it avoids confusion from this kind of subjectivity. Using a calibrated machine would help to avoid this with equipment speed (mainly for blades - rubbers are more complex regarding topsheet load and sponge compression etc), but all we have is ourselves, and hopefully an honest attempt to discuss things as best we can in a civilised way.

As what I am trying to point out you are mixing the human side and the material side. No matter what the level of the one using the equipment , the properties of the blade in this instance do not change. A clear distinction has to be made between the properties of the blade and the tester. Even if a blocker would smash using 2 different blades with the same rubber I bet my life he could tell the difference in speed.

Bottomline, no matter what your style is when you test an equipment test it with specific strokes like test it using a smash or a loop like using the same rubber with 2 different blades or using the same blade with 2 different rubbers. It will always give you the difference in speed, control and other factors, not all the time but always. The example you gave me andy was just somebody using it but not fully test it in a fair manner. There is a big difference with testing equipment and just trying them out. I know you know that.

yogi_bear wrote: A clear distinction has to be made between the properties of the blade and the tester. Even if a blocker would smash using 2 different blades with the same rubber I bet my life he could tell the difference in speed.

It's all good guys. No hard feelings.

something wrong here. he says: taking a decent amount of lessons (about 30 hours total)
you can't call decent amount 30 hours of lessons. It's nothing

fatt wrote: here is his review as of 2/25/2017: ------------------------ <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">**After the feedback in this thread, I have re-tested all the blades with the same rubber combo (Tibhar EL-S 2.1mm on FH and BH*** <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">About me: I'm an average player. Have been playing table tennis for about 10 years. Was very active in my youth playing league at a decent regional level. I've stopped playing competitively at age 17 and have since been a casual player. My technique has probably some decent fundamentals but my movement and in part my technique is certainly quite rusty. I've played a lot more TT again in the past two years including taking a decent amount of lessons (about 30 hours total) and playing 2 times a week at least.</span><div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">My past equipment (EJ'ing):<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">BTY Viscaria w. EL-S 2.1/EL-S.2.1<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Nittaku Acoustic Carbon w. EL-S 2.1/EL-S.2.1<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Stiga Infinity VPS w. EL-S 2.1/EL-S.2.1<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I've now acquired a Nittaku Violin (Large Handle) w. EL-S 2.1/EL-S.2.1<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I have also had the chance to play the Jun Mizutani SZLC with the EL-S 2.1/EL-S.2.1.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">All blades have been played for at least 90 minutes during this testing incl. training and 2 matches each.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Speed<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Ranking: 1. Jun Mizutani SZLC<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">2. Acoustic Carbon<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">3. Viscaria<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">4. Infinity VPS / Nittaku Violin<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">The JM SZLC feels like the fastest blade by a good margin. However. due to its soft wood, you initially don't really feel that fast. However, it is consistently faster than the Acoustic which follows in a not two distant second place. The Infinity VPS and the Violin are very close to each other in terms of speed. Again, these are my subjective observations.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Spin<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Ranking:<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">1) Acoustic Carbon<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">2) Violin<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">3) JM SZLC / Viscaria<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">4) Infinity VPS<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">The Acoustic just helps produce an insane amount of spin; The Violin is very spinny as well. I didnt expect to get that much dwell from this type of wood but it creates great spin with little effort. The JM SZLC has a nice dwell time as well thanks to its Limba outer layer. To me, it wasn't as spinny as the Violin or rather, it required a bit more effort. The Viscaria is very similar in terms of spin potential to me. Lastly, the Infinity was disappointing to me in comparison to the other blades. You needed to hit the ball quite perfectly in order to put a good amount of spin on it.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Control<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Ranking:<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">1) Violin<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">2) JM SZLC<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">3) Acoustic Carbon / Infinity VPS<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">4) Viscaria<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">To me, the Violin is by far the most controlled blade. It has such a touch and its very easy to move the ball around. One way to describe it is that its confidence inspiring. To my great surprise, the JM SZLC wasn't far off. This might be because of my play style where I like to sometimes block and play more passive. This is a monster for blocking and passive play. The sweet spot is so enormous that no matter where you hit on the blade, you are getting a decent return. With some distance, the Acoustic Carbon and the Infinity follow; to me, especially the Acoustic Carbon requires a delicate touch to control the short game. The Viscaria was the most difficult to control for me when it comes to placing shots and playing short-short with a lot of pushes.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Quality<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Ranking:<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">1) Acoustic Carbon<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">2) Violin<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">3) JM SZLC<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">4) Viscaria <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">5) Infinity VPS<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">The top 3 are very close together. All impeccable. The Viscaria has a nice finish as well but it just "feels" a little more mass-produced. The Infinity has a rough finish in comparison.<div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> <div style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Hope this might help someone some day.<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253; font-size: 10px;"> Edited by h0n1g - 02/25/2017 at 12:25am</span>

I disagree with the spin ranking. I've played with the infinity for about 6 months and ever since I used the viscaria. I also switched between the blades while I still had both and whenever I swithches back to infinity I felt a huge difference in dwell time. I think you all know the feeling when you switch to a different blade maybe carbon to all word and something feels very different. For me I felt like the ball was staying on my racket for about 1 second or so when I switched back to infinity. Thus making a shot with more spin than with the viscaria. Obviously those differences start to go away as you continue to play with the blade.(Like buying something new and with time you lose that special feeling for it.)

Matt Pimple wrote: piligrim wrote: something wrong here. he says: taking a decent amount of lessons (about 30 hours total) you can't call decent amount 30 hours of lessons. It's nothing What exactly do you mean? If a total beginner takes 30h or lessons it probably doesn't mean too much but if somebody at a 2000 level takes 30h of lessons to fine tune technique, that may be a decent amount.

I exactly mean that 30 hours not enough

This thread is not going anywhere, can we lock it?

rocketman222 wrote: This thread is not going anywhere, can we lock it?

h0n1g wrote: good way to fuel the fire NextLevel. Here's some gasoline.