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HL 5 and 3 value

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tom View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/09/2017 at 11:48am
HL 5 and 3 are $200 blades. FB carbon and wood are $60 blades with similar specs.  If value is considered, would you recommend the HLs.  Another point, how is the quality of the HLs compared to $200 blades of other brands.  I own 2 HK655 and am not that impressed by their quality even though I liked how they play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote h0n1g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 12:53pm
There will be enough people arguing that no $200 blade is worth is etc. etc.. 

Anyhow, to answer your question: HL5 is to the same finishing standard that a Stiga Carbonado has. Its very good but IMO not near Butterfly or the top-end Tibhar or Nexy stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 3:41pm
Thanks for your input h0n1g, to the quality.

My other question, to anyone that cares to comment, should be reconfigured to read: for the price difference, with value taken into account, would you recommend the HL5 over the FB Carbon and HL3 over the FB 1 given the HLs are 3 times as much the FBs.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 3:59pm
I had 2 original HL5 blades (purchased from Paddle Palace). Part of the outer limba layer peeled off upon rubber removal (I use mild water based glue).

I would seal it. Then, it is good.

Not sure how it is relative to the Fang Bo 2, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote young dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 4:21pm
The word "value" is all relative.  A $500 blade is never gonna be ten times better than a $50 blade, only because quality improvements are not quantifiable.  Instead, I would just give yourself a comfortable budget that you're willing to spend, and find the best blade in the budget that fits your game.  If you're comparing a $200 blade vs a $60 blade that's similar in specs (HL vs FB in your example), that's a moot comparison because the $200 blade is better every time.  Instead of trying to arbitrarily gauge value or how much better it is, just get HL if that's your maximum budget, because it is better than FB.  If you can stretch it to $400+, get the W968.  The wood sourced, glue, and finish are completely different, just like how BMW M3 is completely different from the 3 series despite similarities on the surface.

TL/DR: come up with a maximum budget, and buy the most expensive blade that fits your game.  All else equal (type of wood, etc), the pricier blade is a better option every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 4:28pm
"Not sure how it is relative to the Fang Bo 2, though." 

Slevin, I have a FB2 which is of reasonable quality (but wouldn't say great)  Haven't replaced the rubber yet so I can't say if it splinters (my main complaint against the HK655 even after sealing). I read your comments on the HL5's playing attributes on another thread and is currently somewhat tempted to get one or the HL3 but not sure if would make sense. 
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tom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2017 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by young dude young dude wrote:

The word "value" is all relative.  A $500 blade is never gonna be ten times better than a $50 blade, only because quality improvements are not quantifiable.  Instead, I would just give yourself a comfortable budget that you're willing to spend, and find the best blade in the budget that fits your game.  If you're comparing a $200 blade vs a $60 blade that's similar in specs (HL vs FB in your example), that's a moot comparison because the $200 blade is better every time.  Instead of trying to arbitrarily gauge value or how much better it is, just get HL if that's your maximum budget, because it is better than FB.  If you can stretch it to $400+, get the W968.  The wood sourced, glue, and finish are completely different, just like how BMW M3 is completely different from the 3 series despite similarities on the surface.

TL/DR: come up with a maximum budget, and buy the most expensive blade that fits your game.  All else equal (type of wood, etc), the pricier blade is a better option every time.

good perspective - but not sure if I could adapt to it - but if I could then it would more likely be the W968 (going with the above example) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 10:36am
The difference is play in FB 2 and ML5 is marginal close and mid distance.
ML5 is just a bit more flexible and softer, nothing that someone who has never played would both would miss.
Buy the cheaper blade, FB2.
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tom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:32am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

The difference is play in FB 2 and ML5 is marginal close and mid distance.
ML5 is just a bit more flexible and softer, nothing that someone who has never played would both would miss.
Buy the cheaper blade, FB2.
Thank you.  I will start by using my FB2 a bit more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:45am

Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ?

I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation.

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 08/10/2017 at 11:50am
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darucla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 12:37pm
Incidentally, the Fang Bo 2, also known as Hurricane Bo 2 etc, is very much like the HL 5, but the Fang Bo 7-ply allwood is not the same as the HL 3.  The HL 3 has a clipper-like construction, which the FB does not.  The giveaway being the lack of red plies.  Certainly, the outer ply is different, koto not limba, but I believe that I saw that the inner plies may be different as well.  Can't find that reference at the moment.

Anyway, if you want a cheaper version of the HL3, the PG-7, TG-7P. TG-506/506+ and one or two others fit the bill.  The HL-3 is the best for me of the three versions I have of those.

The H301, fairly newly released, seems to be very close to the FB 2, but MAY have a koto outer.  Needs verifying though.  It has a slightly larger handle, which I find better than the FB2, on which I had to use a grip wrap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 12:55pm
There also many players who use $60 blades and play at a very high level.  I've had garage level players tell me how well they're playing since they bought new 5 star balls and 5 star paddles off the internet.  I use a $35 Giant Dragon Balsa Light blade and really like it.  I know of much better players who also use it. 

You can probably find something under $100 that will fit your style very well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by darucla darucla wrote:

Incidentally, the Fang Bo 2, also known as Hurricane Bo 2 etc, is very much like the HL 5, but the Fang Bo 7-ply allwood is not the same as the HL 3.  The HL 3 has a clipper-like construction, which the FB does not.  The giveaway being the lack of red plies.  Certainly, the outer ply is different, koto not limba, but I believe that I saw that the inner plies may be different as well.  Can't find that reference at the moment.

Anyway, if you want a cheaper version of the HL3, the PG-7, TG-7P. TG-506/506+ and one or two others fit the bill.  The HL-3 is the best for me of the three versions I have of those.

The H301, fairly newly released, seems to be very close to the FB 2, but MAY have a koto outer.  Needs verifying though.  It has a slightly larger handle, which I find better than the FB2, on which I had to use a grip wrap.

Thanks for the info. I had a  PG7- much too slow and hollow for me.  Is the HL3 in the same vicinity or is much more solid and powerful?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

There also many players who use $60 blades and play at a very high level.  I've had garage level players tell me how well they're playing since they bought new 5 star balls and 5 star paddles off the internet.  I use a $35 Giant Dragon Balsa Light blade and really like it.  I know of much better players who also use it. 

You can probably find something under $100 that will fit your style very well. 

know what you are saying.  I am not opposed to a higher priced blade but there has to be value in the purchase.  I am cheap that way.


Edited by tom - 08/10/2017 at 1:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darucla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:


Thanks for the info. I had a  PG7- much too slow and hollow for me.  Is the HL3 in the same vicinity or is much more solid and powerful?

It is very difficult to know what someone else means by slow and hollow.  My HL 3 has Hurricane 8 FH and MX-P BH rubbers, and certainly feels very solid (best feel in my hand when striking the ball) and I can hit the ball as fast as I want, but it is not a catapult-like system.  The blade is not springy of itself. The 506+ is very similar, but has a larger face (may not be true of all versions), and is thus slightly more head heavy, which makes it easier to hit hard.

The Fang Bo 2 is slightly faster, but otherwise has much of the same feel as the HL 3.  At the moment, I am recovering from a broken wrist, so have not much playing time with the H301, but that may be faster still.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2017 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by darucla darucla wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:


Thanks for the info. I had a  PG7- much too slow and hollow for me.  Is the HL3 in the same vicinity or is much more solid and powerful?


It is very difficult to know what someone else means by slow and hollow.  My HL 3 has Hurricane 8 FH and MX-P BH rubbers, and certainly feels very solid (best feel in my hand when striking the ball) and I can hit the ball as fast as I want, but it is not a catapult-like system.  The blade is not springy of itself. The 506+ is very similar, but has a larger face (may not be true of all versions), and is thus slightly more head heavy, which makes it easier to hit hard.

The Fang Bo 2 is slightly faster, but otherwise has much of the same feel as the HL 3.  At the moment, I am recovering from a broken wrist, so have not much playing time with the H301, but that may be faster still.
Dar:what I was asking was- is the HL3 more solid and powerful than the PG7, but since you compared the HL3 to the FB2 I have the needed reference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2017 at 12:21am
I have a tt shop and if someone said do you have FB, I would say yes I have facebook
Just start with the proper names and then abbreviate later, it only takes a few seconds
Ulmo Duality,tibhar 5Q sound black, Dtechs grass ox red
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2017 at 5:24pm
As an HL5 user these days, I'd like to chime in to note that the splintering issue with the first batch of HL5's affected me too.  In the last year or so, DHS has updated the HL5 to have a slightly smaller head size and far superior finishing than they previously had.  There are no more issues with the top ply separation with the new versions.  The old version has printing on the blade face and a grey and yellow stripe on the handle.  The new version does not have any printing on the blade surface, and only has a single yellow stripe on the handle.  Paddle Palace and TT11 both carry the new versions now.

Compared the Fang Bo B2, HL5 has a slightly thicker handle, lower throw, less vibration, more flex, and better finishing.  The HL5 also feels more solid in my opinion, and is clearly a premium quality blade.  A clubmate and I purchased an FB2 and a HL5 around the same time, and we both agree that the HL5 definitely aged better.

Despite being the same in composition, I believe the difference in feel and play is because of the position of the handle relative to the blade surface.  The top of the HL5 handle sits slightly lower than the FB2, which allows for more flex by reducing the shoulder size of the blade.  This was especially important to me as a penholder, and makes the HL blades vastly superior to the FB's for me.

-----

In regards to the H301, it is also similar construction to the HL5 and FB2, but does in fact have a koto outer ply.  However, having tried the national version previously (N301), it felt like quite a departure from HL5 and FB2.  I would not put those blades in the same category - instead, I'd align the H301 more with the Hurricane Hao blades but with 2 layers of carbon, or a deader alternative to the Hurricane King 3.
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