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which one is more effect the game Blade or Rubber?

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nuri View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/09/2017 at 4:43pm
Does the blade more effect the game or rubber more effect the game? pls advice and thanks.
Some people says rubber is more effective (it is about %80 effect) blade is only %20 effect
but some people says no blade is more important (blade is %80 effective rubber is only %20) what is truth?


Edited by nuri - 09/10/2017 at 5:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2017 at 5:30pm
Performance depends on what the player values and how the equipment suits their game.


It is an opinion.


I use this rubber on the backhand of a slow Yasaka Extra. For my game, it is a utility rubber like Sriver. Push/Block/Serve and Topspin. I use it instead of a classic rubber because it is better at offense without being significantly worse at defense. 

Compare that with some of the reviews there; for sure many of the players who found that the rubber was very fast were playing it on a harder or stiffer blade.

Harmony or disharmony between equipment is a reason people's opinion vary.
US1260.RC952 . Yasaka Gatien Extra : Target National + Rasant
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For me and others it has been rubber. I can use a cheap alc or aramid carbon blade with decent rubbers or good ones and still play well as long as the rubber matches or suits my style. For me if a blade is too soft or too hard I have to think about the sacrifices for the pros. Whatever your style is choose a blade you think will suit you. Most go for medium hard like to alc or spirit along with viscaria. But to some those are too stiff so everything is subjective and dependant on the player. I for myself got into the dhs fad recently and love the Hao 3 along with long 3. Hao 3 unfortunately comes only in flared but it is soo comfty in which I had doubts about dhs lol flared handles in particular. Long 3 I got in straight and is lovely. Hao 3 I use gewo nanoflex ft45 backhand and ft40 forehand. For this setup I use it when I want to safely win a game vs all out offense or loops. Long 3 is also the same rubber setup but easy to win against pips users. Especially long pips which I love when surprising the crap out of when I do something they were thinking opposite of lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmonicTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 12:28am
Also like a few or others that do tibhar aurus is meant for backhand or just a all around rubber. I've used those types of rubbers for forehand and have had no problem. So no matter the blade even with cheaper or not high speed rating rubbers I still played well. Nexy elips, demeian, aurus/soft/sound, sriver/g3/fx/el, etc can all be used on most blades if not all. So to be honest the blade really doesn't do much except help with whatever style of player you are. Flat hitters and smashers need stiff to really hard blades vs too soft and it doesn't do much
Also forgot to mention I have 729 focus 3 snipe both sides only available in 2.1 well all that I know of currently I'm using it my other long 3 and I realized I kind of spent more money on gewo when 729 gets the job done just fine. High spin and fast blocks give me an ease of mind also don't need to do a hyper form or extension to get power or spin. But not everyone has the same body or form so results will vary.

Edited by HarmonicTT - 09/10/2017 at 12:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 2:50am
thanks for reply...what others think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakepender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 3:45am
Question for those who currently use a top end alc or zlc blade.. what blade would go down to if you are forced to, and why?

Do you think it would affect your game if you can still have your choice of rubbers?
viscaria : z1 / z2
yasaka mlc : jp 01 / jp 02
korbel : omg iv pro / omg iv euro

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 4:12am
Vectran for its vibration damping property, moisture resistance, and lower cost.

Zylon degrades when exposed to not only UV, but also visible light. Humidity leads to significant degradation as well. A big no-no in the southern hemisphere.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000265.html

http://www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/kc/pbo/zylon-p/bussei-p/technical.pdf

Edited by zeio - 09/10/2017 at 4:33am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 5:02am
Sorry maybe the question is not fully understood because my English is so bad (I always use Google translate)
I mean only Is blade more important or is rubber more important?
if we have a old cheap blade but have a tenergy 05 how is our game effect?
or if we have zhang jike süper zlc but have a tıbhar rapid soft how is our game effect? (if all other variables are the same...same time same person etc.. )
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 6:11am
Originally posted by nuri nuri wrote:

Sorry maybe the question is not fully understood because my English is so bad (I always use Google translate)
I mean only Is blade more important or is rubber more important?
if we have a old cheap blade but have a tenergy 05 how is our game effect?
or if we have zhang jike süper zlc but have a tıbhar rapid soft how is our game effect? (if all other variables are the same...same time same person etc.. )
   

I'd say it's more important to have a decent rubber that isn't too worn out. 

You could probably stick a tenergy 05 on any cheap 5 ply wood blade and still play OK with it. But a cheap, worn out rubber on a super expensive blade won't do well as you won't be able to spin the ball much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 7:26am

Rubber unless your using long pips with no sponge or .5 1.0 1.5 then the blade does make a difference as well as the pips.

Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarmonicTT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 10:40am
For me if I had to choose or downgrade not really a downgrade since these blades for backup are chosen to my likes.
Most Donic blades (ovtcharov true carbon, crest ar+, loping kitex,)
Stiga artic wood, clipper, celero wood
Mizuno fortius ft this blade is all wood and one thing I love in particular is the harder you hit the lower the arc is which results in hard to return balls.
And don't forget sanwei blades. I currently have h3 which is a 5+2 zlf blade. And then 729 as well for backup. As long as I have my choice of rubbers it won't affect me too much. Most good or professional players can quickly adapt as long as the rubber matches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike1250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 7:45pm
From personal experience, the blades are more important than rubbers . I used the same type of rubbers on 2 different blades and one racket bounced much more than the other !


Edited by mike1250 - 09/10/2017 at 7:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 9:56pm
Both.  Big changes in either one have big effects.  Small changes in either one have small effects.  There is no way around this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2017 at 11:14pm
For me, blades. 
Because of a simple experience I´ve made:
When I kept the same blade and changed rubbers (all tensioned) I´ve noticed small changes.
But when I kept the same rubber and changed the blade (all 7-plies) the difference was huge.
As a penholder I notice more the difference between blades because each one has a different thickness, handle, cut to the index finger and shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 7:43am
Originally posted by mike1250 mike1250 wrote:

From personal experience, the blades are more important than rubbers . I used the same type of rubbers on 2 different blades and one racket bounced much more than the other !



What is the weight difference between the two ?

Bounce test both on table with the same ball dropped from the same height ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 10:26am
Originally posted by mike1250 mike1250 wrote:

From personal experience, the blades are more important than rubbers . I used the same type of rubbers on 2 different blades and one racket bounced much more than the other !
=================
Do this experiment:
Try the same blade using 2 different rubbers, one superior and one inferior.
Let us know your results.

You may end up with the opposite conclusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike1250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 10:28am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:




What is the weight difference between the two ?

Bounce test both on table with the same ball dropped from the same height ?


Informations on Blades used in the test :

Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s :  83 grams
Kokutaku (5 ply wood )  : 85 gr.







These 2 blades made from 100% wood without carbon layers  !

Rubbers used on both blades : Kokutaku  Blutenkirsche

Drop same ball from same height 36" ,  the bounce on the Kokutaku blade  is only 70% of that  on the Yinhe blade .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 10:47am
From experience I will have to say that it took me more time and effort to adapt to a new blade than it does to a new rubber.

I have tested the same rubbers on different blades. 

Finding a good blade/rubber combination takes a little bit of time. But I think the most important is finding a good blade first.

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by mike1250 mike1250 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:




What is the weight difference between the two ?

Bounce test both on table with the same ball dropped from the same height ?


Informations on Blades used in the test :

Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s :  83 grams
Kokutaku (5 ply wood )  : 85 gr.







These 2 blades made from 100% wood without carbon layers  !

Rubbers used on both blades : Kokutaku  Blutenkirsche

Drop same ball from same height 36" ,  the bounce on the Kokutaku blade  is only 70% of that  on the Yinhe blade .


That is strange, the ball drop with no force doesn't even penetrate the rubber.

If the rubbers are boosted, there could be inconsistency in the level of boosting which could definitely affect the bounce that much.
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike1250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:



That is strange, the ball drop with no force doesn't even penetrate the rubber....
.


Strange or not , you have no choice but accepting this fact : the only difference between the 2 cases is the different blades . So , it must be due to the blades. ClapClapClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 3:26pm
I don't think there is a simple answer to your question.  I would find a blade I like and plan on keeping it for a good long time.  Rubber technology is much more active and variable than blade technology.  Once you have a blade that complements your play style, you can build your game around that base.  Choose a good quality blade, it isn't necessary to spend a lot of $$ to find something good, and spend the difference on lessons/coaching.  I've chosen a ZLF blade, I could just as easily play with a ZLC or ALC, or all wood blade.  I like the combination of touch and feel of my blade.  Others want something stiffer, and faster or slower and softer.

Rubber is much more variable, as new things come out very often, some better, some just a different balance of playing properties.  Again once you find something that works well, it isn't necessary to try the latest variants.  I know some players still are playing with Mark V, and doing well with it.  Personally I wouldn't be happy with it, but that's why they make so many different rubbers.  It's not what I would choose, but I could use Mark V, and (on my forehand) not change much of my game.  It just wouldn't give me the feel and options I'm used to.  But I would adapt.

If possible try some of your friends/teammates rackets at your club/tournament and see what feels best.  Or even better ask your coach what he recommends.


Edited by 1dennistt - 09/11/2017 at 3:27pm
Xiom Hayabusa Z+, Donic Bluefire M2 (Black) Max, Spinlord Keiler (Red) 1.8 mm, Wt. 161 gm total weight

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 3:37pm
1.  Take the blade of your choice, whatever you like, it doesn't matter.  Put Tenergy 05, or Hurricane unboosted, or Mark V on it, and in each case it will play totally differently.  You will need to use different racket angles on almost every shot, depending on the rubber.  If you are used to any one of those and switch to the other you will find yourself knocking the ball off the table or into the net for a long time.  (By contrast, switch from Tenergy 05 to Evolution MX-P and you will adjust much more easily).  The rubber matters.

2.  Now take, say, a Butterfly Viscaria and a Donic Appelgren Allplay (or a Stiga All Around).  Put Tenergy 05 on each one.  Again you will find that you will need quite distinct changes in technique to play, and adjustment is far from instantaneous  But if you put Tenergy 05 on a Viscaria or a Donic True Carbon, not much difference based on those blades, assuming you stick with same handle shape.  You can adjust very easily, even though no two blades are identical.  The blade matters.

3.  In an case, the only way to figure out if you like a blade/rubber combination is by trying it.  The cheapest way to do that is to try other people's blades.  You can waste a lot of money trying blades or rubbers based on what you read on the internet.  Some people don't mind that, it is part of the fun for them, but if money is an issue, heed my words.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 4:35pm
Both are equally important, either one can effect your confidence, you simply cannot play well, if your confidence is shot Smile.  However, blade last much longer than rubbers, so it's always more important to pick the right blade, before you pick the rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 8:45pm
Yes but two sheets of some rubbers cost more than many blades!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by mike1250 mike1250 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:



That is strange, the ball drop with no force doesn't even penetrate the rubber....
.


Strange or not , you have no choice but accepting this fact : the only difference between the 2 cases is the different blades . So , it must be due to the blades. ClapClapClapClap

What is the total weight of each paddle, including blade and rubber ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike1250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


What is the total weight of each paddle, including blade and rubber ?


For Blade + Rubbers :

Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s :  181. gr
Kokutaku (5 ply wood )  : 184. gr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2017 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by mike1250 mike1250 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


What is the total weight of each paddle, including blade and rubber ?


For Blade + Rubbers :

Yinhe/Galaxy N-9s :  181. gr
Kokutaku (5 ply wood )  : 184. gr


Is the ball test result the same for both sides ?
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
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