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Match against Cheng Li (2541) game 3 and 4 |
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qpskfec
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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It's not just equipment. Many players use variation to win points even with inverted rubber. I once played a new player and after a few points was asked "are you using pips?". I was using Tenergy and dead blocked a ball which my opponent dumped into the bottom of the net. Then I looped a ball which was returned 3 feet off the table. I would say the people I encounter who complain about LP the most are bad at reading spin and have weak mental games. They usually are the ones who complain about noise, balls on the court, lighting, slippery floor, etc. pushblockers game is ugly and beautifully skillful |
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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I think you play very well Pushblocker. You do not look rusty at all. The quality of your push is probably better than in your older video, most of your error came from rushing the shot, but I think that is because your opponent is so good, if you don't rush and give him enough pace, he will make you pay.
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hangdog
Member Joined: 10/13/2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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The long pimples are only doing a different kind of work to the elastic sponges and tensioned rubbers that conventional inverted players rely on to “do the work” for them. There is a hell of a lot of skill involved in controlling long pips. Try it and see – better yet, try it against a 2500 player and see. |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Fabian 1890 Wrote "not relying on feeling of the ball"
You would be really surprised at the feeling it takes to keep the ball on the table, especially playing with a different type of rubber on the 4H. |
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kolevtt
Platinum Member Joined: 06/13/2011 Location: European Union Status: Offline Points: 2578 |
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It is always nice to see people looking for an advice or useful and objective criticism for their videos.
Watching at your video I just noticed you are doing the same like many more non-talented players - Looking for blocks, cuts, chops, drop-chops and variations of these "weird" movements, thinking they are doing something very hard or special. Nothing even close... From psychological point - for all my time in the sport I saw many players like you to try this style and having some weird happiness after mistake of their opponents makes me wondering for something. I'll be glad to know what exactly makes you happy doing this weird style... With these kind of movements you can never improve your level and you can never check the possibilities of your body. You are like a piece of stone on the table man...I thought the sport is made people to move their body, while your moving is connecting only if you must go to collect the ball. Looking how you are limiting your mind with this style is more than sad. Yes, sometimes someone from the better players (you have played versus) had ill stomach or bad day or lack of interest to show his best (topic here is very large, but I am only focused on the quality of your game, not mentioned your results, because they are not any factor for me). I can not see something special which could makes you happy or proud of yourself after a win. You have not any one single strong attacking movement. As many people have found - best defense is the offense and talking for players from 1 century ago (comparing with today's players) is sounding even more weird for me... You are unable to react adequately versus strong loops on your forehand (especially these close to your body) or slow and heavy lops in left with high trajectory. Your starting position is like a position of classic style wrestler. Even amateur coach could give you advice about better starting position which could be more effective in your game, but as you are focused on the full passive game - each position works with you. I am always looking to see positive things in the style of each tt player, because I am self-educated player mostly (never had good coach for period), but watching your videos I felt completely disappointed. Yes, players into each sport are trying to motivate themselves by one or another kind of activities during matches, but I really can't see what are trying to achieve on the table. Too much defense, too much same game, too slow movements, nothing really useful to be a good sample for the youngsters. Or may be you could be useful sample for the youngsters (what do not try), you never know. I have nothing versus if this kind of game makes you happy with tt. Just wondering all about the purpose of your style, concretely. Thanks for sharing, that was one of the few samples of full passive style players I have seen for all my years in the sport. I am very large in mind person and I will never have for purpose try hurt someone posting his videos here (direct or indirect) my purpose in general is to find the reason for your style. That will be really interesting for me - to tell me what motivates you to continue with this boring and weird style more than 10 years (or probably more). Thanks in advance once again! |
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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I guess an interesting question to ask at this point: can you beat 'pushblocker'? If not (and I suspect you have to be USATT 2200+ to do it comfortably, if not higher) - then arguments about how esthetically pleasing this style is (or not) seem to be besides the point. We are not talking about gymnastics, synchronized swimming or figure skating here, subjective judgements do not apply, only win-loss record matters. Can't speak for Pushblocker, but he can play whatever damn style he pleases. And so are you. P.S. Most of the statements you make contradict the last one about being 'large in mind' person. IMHO, of course.
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USATT: ~1810
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passifid
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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I assume he enjoys the ability to keep the ball going despite the best efforts to make him miss, much like a goalkeeper in football. I hate playing good players like him, its frustrating and honestly i find it boring to play. But i am sure he enjoys it and many enjoy playing with him as such he can do as he pleases, sure he wont be able to say look at my beautiful loop but he CAN say look at how i defended against 5 massive loops in a row and still managed to dink it away from him.
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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Few of my clubmates started to push the ball (like in game 4) back to me, and they would only loop or drive when they are in position. I believe the 40+ balls make the LP push harmless
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Playing regularly with a lot of high level LP players (including a LP SP hitter), I can say that it is very difficult to appreciate the change in length and pace of the ball unless you are on the receiving end.
PushBlocker has good control on depth and placement and I think he would be quite effective even with an inverted. Edited by ashishsharmaait - 11/06/2017 at 8:52pm |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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2010 Florida State Champion
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Edited by Pushblocker - 11/06/2017 at 9:20pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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============= Agree with this statement 100%.
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skip3119
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BeaverMD
Gold Member Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Nice match! Haterz gonna hate... LOL! Many people don't understand that by the time a player reaches I would say around 1950-ish level, your table tennis IQ needs to be pretty good. Blocking 2500 level loops off the bounce is NOT an easy thing to do. Was that a FH loopkill at 0:51 of game 3? You are no longer allowed to call yourself a "non-attacking" pushblocker But I think your inverted rating can be higher than 1400. What rubbers were you using? You need to slap some 729FX or Reflectoid and play like this penholder.
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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so if I can't beat FZD I am not allow to criticize him or his style? :) |
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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Could you expound on why someone needs to be able to possibly beat pushblocker to comment on how aesthetically pleasing his style is, when he is posting his match videos on the forum for public commenting? I'm not taking anything away from his game, just don't get this statement at all.
Edited by bard romance - 11/07/2017 at 9:26am |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I think there is some truth to this. At lower levels, you can win with LP simply because your opponents haven't had enough experience against them. This scenario can be the one that frustrates opponents and bakes in the idea that they're unfair in some way. I can see both sides to this - new players can be put off the sport, and LP can be a crutch to keep older players competitive. For many new players it's just a phase they need to get through, and good coaching is the best way. After the lower levels everything tends to even out. I tend to do well against players at my level using LP or anti because I find them predictable and can easily set up attacks on subsequent balls, but that's come with experience and training over many years. I see them as an advantage in my favour. Players who are better than me are more likely to beat me of course, regardless of equipment. At the top level the laws of physics come into play and there is a reason why the top 100 is dominated by reverse rubber users these days. It would take something unusual or innovative to get a LP/SP/Anti world number one now. Oliver is something of a marvel in the modern game. I have no idea how he plays like he does, especially in the face of rule changes over the last 10 years which will have knocked him back. I find it fascinating and I take my hat off to him - the dedication he must have put into the style is incredibly impressive. Sure, I don't find it attractive in the aesthetic sense (a very subjective statement), but in practical, sporting terms it's amazing.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I had about 2 attacks in game 1 and one attach in game 3.. Don't think that 3 attacks in 4 games make me an attacker . I have taken games off 2000 players using inverted.. I was using a 729 SST cross on the bh and some looping rubber with a soft sponge on the forehand (don't recall what brand it was). I can play about low 2000 level with anti which is also an inverted rubber... My main issue with inverted is not when the ball is in play. My main problem with inverted is service return.. I never practice service return with inverted as I return all serves with pips..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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hmm .. so instead to practice service return you choose easy way and use pips :) |
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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With all due respect, I cannot agree with pushblocker's statement; he don't play like Fukuoka Haruna, Stefan Kostadinovic or Liu Song after the 2nd ball
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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i sure do.. Those pips instantly made me a 2000+ player.. They are magical Edited by Pushblocker - 11/07/2017 at 11:53am |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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hhca
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 326 |
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2nd that observation: those were not actually "unforced" errors. the opponent exerted on you directly or indirectly. That being said, your style is a measuring stick for a player's soundness in fundamentals and understanding of spin
Edited by hhca - 11/07/2017 at 2:37pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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He is asking to understand the motives of the poster. Many people are just annoyed that pips players can play well without the same level of athleticism of most similarly rated inverted players. But if the player is highly rated then the criticisms are less likely to be driven by ratings envy. I had a 1200 friend who lost to a 1500 pips player complain this weekend, while I understood how he felt, you usually don't beat pips players until you come to accept what they do well and what they don't do well and adapt your game weapons to take advantage. Saying your opponent is hiding behind equipment makes it harder to play pips well in my experience. Edited by NextLevel - 11/07/2017 at 2:50pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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Understood and agreed. However, aesthetically pleasing is a separate issue. I think most people can agree that it is not an aesthetically pleasing style. Understanding what is actually going on on the gameplay level is a separate thing. Though it does seem like a number of the posters here would fall into the group you mentioned.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The better you are as a table tennis player, the better you appreciate the level of skill required to play like pushblocker almost to the point you begin to enjoy watching it. In chess, we have similar considerations about how certain playing styles are considered "boring" but they can become beautiful in the eyes of someone who appreciates the kinds of gifts one has to have to play them. So while I agree that the general audience won't find this as aesthetically pleasing as a looper vs chopper or looper vs looper battle, the question of rating is relevant as it does ask the question of whether the critic is at a playing level that enables him to appreciate the difficulty of the style. Of course, one can very well not be and that level and still be a critic. But it is just a data point to consider and not always irrelevant.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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SmileTT
Super Member Joined: 04/15/2017 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 240 |
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If long pips is the easy route and the best, everyone would be using them! Imo, they are more difficult to use than inverted grippy rubbers. And Short pips probably the most difficult to use well, out of the three.
How come no one complains about blades? Surely a slower one is easier to use compared to OFF and OFF+ ones? People are just complaining because of the perceived advantage of pips. The only advantage they have over inverted users, is unfamiliarity. Similar to why lefties have some advantages. Pips can't even generate their own spin!
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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Just wanted to add something.. I highly doubt that most players who use inverted on both sides who have been between 1500 and 1800 would suddenly become 2000+ players if they would put pips on their racket and play pushblocking style.. If it was true that pips make you improve 3 levels or so, everyone would use pips and play pushblocking style.. Who wouldn't want to be 2000+ for 15+ years??
Of course, if you are a 1300 level player and you switch to pips, you may jump 200 points, maybe even 300.. However, the higher you get with that style, the more difficult it becomes and you can't fool anyone by just slapping a piece of long pips on your blade..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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If you consider a sport beautiful when it requires a young, super-fit athletic body to play, why you watching table tennis videos in the first place? Watch track and field, or diving.
Pushblocker came to the club in my tiny town once and was kind enough to play a match with me. It was a short match as I was about 800 points lower rated. You may not find it beautiful, but to take a cross-court loop drive at his bh and block it so it hooked off my wide fh line was certainly an eye-opener. The thing about lp being unfair is just stupid whining. They are allowed, end of story. Seriously if you aren't tough enough to deal with the rules of table tennis just give up competitive sports. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Nah. Don't while. Complain about short serves and short pushes. Those mess up the game and should be banned. Anything that bounces twice on the opponent's table should lose the point.
Edited by NextLevel - 11/08/2017 at 8:48am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Simon_plays
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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Interesting reading :)
I would be interested to see a video of 'Pushblocker' playing against a similar rated chopper.
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