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Butterfly Dignics 05 Reviews? |
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I play at a variety of different places. I live in Q9. I have a small club with 2 tables in my apartment complex, but luckily it has air con. The only air con place I know of actually other than Hoa Lu Stadium which has air con but never turns it on. Recently its been so hot outside that I've often just stayed there to play at my apartment . The nearest club to my house is Hai Son club. I play there sometimes. Sometimes I go to Ti Long, Nguyen Van Troi (formerly Hoang Lam), Huong Tram, or Hoang Tan. On the weekends sometimes we visit my girlfriends parents in Tan Binh and I'll play at the railway club in Q3 on Troung Sa. By far, my favorite club is in Binh Duong. The club in Di An, Binh Duong is a two story building with like 10 tables. Di An club is super clean, well lit, and nice tables.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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I think of it this way..
The reason high end butterfly rubbers are better is because when other rubbers reach the max. of spin and speed, Tenergy still haven't reached its limit. BUT we aren't professionals and so we won't be hitting the limit of those cheaper rubbers anytime soon. Yes with those butterfly rubbers you'll get a higher limit in terms of speed and spin, but that's only important once one reaches the maximum capabilities of a "cheaper" rubber. Of course feeling and such is also important, but that again is something that depends on the level. Once you play with a rubber, you'll get more used to it.
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I think that's only somewhat true. There are other things to consider than just simply max speed and spin, such as durability and easy of use. A lot of those cheaper rubbers require a lot more precision than Dignics because the margin for error is very small with a lot of rubbers from the latest ESN generation.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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idk
Silver Member Joined: 07/11/2011 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 790 |
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yes, tenergy and maybe dignics can always be trusted to be durable, as well as intuitive, meaning that they give you the shot you want, when you want, every time. the same cannot be said for lots of "ESN" rubbers i have tried.
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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I disagree when it comes to durability. I think the durability of tenergy isn't good. I don't know if they changed something about the rubber, but it always starts to get damaged at the top left on the forehand side. It keeps the characteristics quite well, but still doesn't last that long. The rubber that I tried in the backhand and now use on the forehand lasts way longer and performs very well.
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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That may well be true for you, but I don't think that's a property of the rubber. It related to you (the user) getting familiar with the properties of the rubber. Once you've adjusted to the properties of a rubber, it will do exactly what you want it to you.... this is the same for just about any rubber. Now if you're used to rubbers like Tenergy, it's likely the adjustment to Dignics is easy and intuitive, but if you're used to certain ESN rubbers, the adjustment might not be easy nor intuitive.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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I read many opinions and I see very biased opinions like if its butterfly is good I dont think people who post wonderful things about this rubber can pass a placebo test with dignics
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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If you put some other rubber on my normal blade and used my normal glue (dhs#15), I could 100 percent tell that it wasn't the same rubber. If you put it on a random blade with random glue, it might be possible to fool some users if you selected the right rubber. However, I don't know what that rubber would be.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Tt Gold
Gold Member Joined: 10/22/2014 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1302 |
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I think I'd still be able to distinguish tenergy from other rubbers. The tenergy top sheet has a certain trademark feel. Just like Coca Cola one can tell the difference.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Back to topic:
I'd love to hear from players who have played with both D05 & T05H as to the comparisons between them. Which one would your recommend for FH more? Apparently, the comparisons between the 3 rubbers are not commensurate with hardness levels. Current consensus states that: Hardness: T05 < D05 < T05H Speed: D05 < T05 < T05H Spin: D05 > T05
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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For my sins, I've been using T05H and D05 for a few weeks now.
This is right, but I would apply caution here. For hardness - D05's sponge is harder than T05, but the topsheet feels softer and the overall hardness is only slightly more IMO. Whereas T05H is much harder than both. Speed is about right, but D05 isn't slow by any means. Spin - tricky to compare I think, and you'll likely get different answers from different players. For my 2p, D05 generates more spin on thin contacts than T05, and this gives a real edge when opening up, bananas, flicks, slow loops. It's less "explosive" though, more of a smooth experience, and you don't get that dramatic wow factor when looping hard. Whereas T05H is a real beast on a hard FH stroke in comparison. The pro trend (which isn't definitive, or absolute, by any means) of Dignics on BH and some sort of Tenergy on FH gives a hint, perhaps.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Yes, that sounds about right, except the speed. Top end speed on Dignics is pretty fast. Dignics is quite tame on controlled shots, but has tons of power when you want to put balls away. I hated T05H. I tried it for about a month on forehand and then backhand. Very unforgiving rubber and requires a lot of precision. The shortest dwell time of any rubber I've played. T05H is also super terrible at hitting, very very bad. During the month with T05H, I played the worst table tennis I've played in the last two or three years. I switched to Dignics and immediately started playing very very well. I can't say enough how much I like this rubber. Very very good.
Edited by ericd937 - 05/08/2019 at 11:46am |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Good to know that you like D05. What blade do you play D05 with? I have several sheets and am mulling on whether I should put one on my main blade to try. I haven't had enough time with D05 to make a permanent opinion. It is all relative isn't it: For me, T05H (on the ZJK-ALC blade) is by far the best Tenergy and possibly the best FH rubber I've played with (along with the higher grades of H3). In fact, I thought that T05H was quite good at smashing but it absolutely shines in power-loops, short game, and pushes.
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Trade feedback:
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I play a custom blade from Thailand. Hinoki/ALC. Previous to Dignics my favorite forehand inverted rubber was T80.
This is the blade I'm playing: (not my hand in the photo, thats the photo from the maker) |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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Makelele
Super Member Joined: 11/28/2009 Status: Offline Points: 416 |
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May be D05 is more similar to Butterfly SpinArt than to Tenergy 05 ?
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I never played SpinArt, but I think SpinArt is even harder than Tenergy 05 Hard. T05Hard isnt really similar to Dignics at all.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
At the highest echelons of the sport, it appears a theme is emerging, namely the moving away from Tenergy 05. Between Dignics, Tenergy 05 Hard, and Hurricane (and perhaps, more clandestinely, Tenergy 09c), more cases are surfacing that express non-Tenergy-05 preferences where Tenergy 05 was previously the preference. Given this is as stated, I find this interesting. Expressed differently, players are declaring that there are now better rubbers for their forehands than Tenergy 05, as they are also declaring that there are now better rubbers for their backhands than Tenergy 05. I am an interested observer of this transition both in the professional arena and among the serious amateur player class. Thanks,
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Donn. Have you tried Dignics yet?
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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AgReZz
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2014 Location: czech republic Status: Offline Points: 419 |
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I tried the rubber and it is exactly what i thought i would be from video reviews. It has weird feeling and too hard. Also the spin felt like it was nothing special probably worse then t05fx. For 100 usd this rubber is a big no.
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Sounds like Butterfly is trying to respond to the needs of their players with the new ball and the change in tactics used by players that have happened over time. It's nice to see options on the table, for different styles of play. As to what these players ultimately play with, that will show over the next 6 months to a year as they try the different offerings and determine which best suits their play style. I can see where the pro and semi pro players will want to try the latest offerings, what remains to be seen is if any of these new offerings, or a combination of them keeps Butterfly at the top of the mountain, or if someone else will discover the new ultimate rubber formula. I'm guessing that the players have had "samples" for a while now, otherwise they wouldn't have been using these at recent high profile tournaments. Tenergy has had a good run, most other manufacturers have been through generations of rubber trying to find something on par with it.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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There was an unfortunate delay in my order, however now it is on the way. In addition to the other observations, the trend commented upon here also is revealing a general absence of finding Dignics on top player's forehands, a state not true of Tenergy 05 during its halcyon days among the Butterfly-both-sides players. Among the strong international player cohort, will we see Dignics as a backhand rubber exclusively? Thanks,
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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looking at the balance of the reviews don't think D05 will be any more successful than T05H in sales. Both have opinions - for and against but T05H is is the same price as the other Ts where D is 20 USD (or whatever) more
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bard romance
Gold Member Joined: 02/18/2016 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1185 |
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Many pros are using Dignics on the FH. Harimoto, Apolonia, Kenta, Yoshimura, Ueda to name a few.
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
And as for Dignics hypotheses for the future?
A full line of variations paralleling Tenergy; 05, 25, 64, 80. A full line of FX versions. A "Hard" version or versions. Or not. Perhaps that product space is adequately filled with Tenergy, as the Dignics' only-nuanced performance distinctions do not warrant this proliferation. Upon us may be a new Butterfly era of single expressions of each new type. Looming is Tenergy 09c and Dignics 09c. Because both presumably share sufficient technological affinity to their respective Mother Ships of Tenergy and Dignics, thus carrying their namesake, they will stand alone as individual expressions. Thanks, |
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Good observation. My contacts indicate the professional class is in the experimental phase of this technological change. The most prevalent thought threading through analyses from people I respect who function in this area of the sport is the speculation that, overall, the sponge hardness on the offensive forehands will ultimately be harder than that provided by Dignics 05. Thanks,
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Hey Donn,
For a ‘Dignics 05 Reviews?’ thread, you seem to have an aweful lot of posts without having tried the rubber! Let us keep the signal to noise ratio good here so that this is helpful to others in the future.
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Okay, I will stop posting.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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taczkid
Super Member Joined: 05/19/2016 Location: ILLINOIS Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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here are some of my thoughts on these rubbers:
My forehand used to be T05 Regular since 2008, then I tried 05H when it came out and I liked it better (more spin, more power better short game). Then I tried to play again with regular 05 and just could not do it... I felt like once I tried 05H I was better player with it in most if not all aspects/gears of the game. Then dignics came out, so I EJ it and spend $$$ on it lol, this rubber just simply does not fit me at all. I never felt comfortable with Dignics no mather what blade or side I put it on. I felt like I often got weird ball flight that I did not anticipate... from the 3 rubbers I will classify them as: (Best > worst) Forehand: 05H > 05 > Dig05 Backhand: 05H > 05 > Dig05 Arc: 05 > dig05 > 05H Speed: 05H > Dig05/T05 Short game: 05H > Dig05/T05 Smash: 05 > 05H > Dig05 Service: 05H > Dig05/T05 close to table play: 05H, 05/dig05 far from table: 05 > 05h > dig05 Also 05 & 05H seems to work well with any blades I tried, dignics played differently on different blades.. I would say for Euro/Jap rubber users who want to play similar rubbers as Chinese type rubbers but simply cant play with those I would say T05H is best solution! If you think its too hard for backhand give it a month, you will really like it! On Forehand best is T05H in my opinion. Also what you will find is that its easier for your opponent to counter topspin/loops from high arc 05 vs T05H, the lower arc of T05H give me way more points against players I often play. Short game from T05H is amazing! What are your thoughts? Do you guys agree find these rubber similar to my observations or not...
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I went from 05 to 05H to D05 on the FH. BH is still 05 for now. I think these play differently with different blades. T05 is at its best on stiffer blades. T05H is at its best on medium stiffness blades. I switched to a softer blade when I found T05H. It was too much for me on the Mazunov. With D05 I was able to go back to the Mazunov. D05, to me, clearly has a gripper topsheet than Tenergy for serves and pushes which is the primary reason I switched to it. Looping with it feels pretty familiar to me. It is similar to T05 on openers and similar to T05H on bigger shots. Ball stays low with D05 after the bounce, which makes it a little similar to T05H in that regard. The ball with regular T05 definitely sits up a little more. With D05 it stay nice and low. I rely on heavy spin openers a lot, so D05 helps me in that regard. When the opponent tries to take a stay away from the table and counterloop, the ball dips down in front of him. D05 does require a somewhat different contact than T05H, so it took me a little time to adjust. It also seems to work better with blades that have hard outer plies. I did not like too much the feel with cypress outer ply, but Planchonello is a good fit. I tried D05 on the BH a little, but not enough to form strong opinions. It was very good on the opener, but I like to punch with the BH, so I need to experiment with that a little more. None of the Tenergies are great for that (other than T25), but I make do. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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I rank them in exactly the opposite order. lol I honestly don't really like normal Tenergy 05 all that much and Tenergy 05 Hard was one of the worst rubbers I've played ever. I tried it for a month on both wings. I also tried the 05H boosted and unboosted on two different blades; Hinoki/ALC and Hinoki/T5000. 05H wasn't good for me in any case. (Best > worst) Forehand: Dig05 > T80 > T05 > Any rubber on the planet > 05H Backhand: Dig05 > T80 > T05 > 10 dollar rubber > 05H Edited by ericd937 - 05/09/2019 at 8:24pm |
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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