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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
For what it is worth: in at least a few interviews some years ago, Timo Boll commented as to the unfairness of Chinese players using a rubber that you cannot buy (their Hurricane), yet anyone can buy the rubber that Timo Boll uses. When coaching on the (then) ITTF Pro Tour, a few times I heard top European players comment on the "weirdness" "strangeness" of some of the shots from the Chinese. Thanks.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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SP rubbers is BOOBY TRAP.
ALL the so called SP Rubbers (those non commercial) are explicitly prohibited by ITTF rules. /Be happy/ |
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jpenman
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2020 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Edited by jpenman - 07/26/2021 at 10:54am |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I was hoping to stay out of this conversation because it's all been argued ad nauseam before. However, I want to reinforce Donn's earlier posts. I have also asked Pros and International coaches before, and the various Japanese and European rubbers generally don't have special "pro" versions of their rubbers. I say generally because I can't be sure for all brands, but I know this applies to Butterfly. As Donn notes, Pros can ask to have their rubber cut from different parts of the "sponge loaf". Sponge is manufactured in blocks like a big loaf of bread, and the sponge characteristics are different near the ends of the loaf compared to the center. I think Pros generally prefer cuts near the ends, which are harder. So in that sense, a pro can ask to have a sheet with sponge cut from the ends, whereas the retail sheets we all buy have cuts of sponge that are random (and therefore will vary in hardness). In addition, elite pros are supplied stacks of rubbers, so they can pick and choose which sheets they think they like best. I also recall the interview with Timo where he complained that the CNT had access to special rubbers while he had to use retail (commonly available) rubbers. He was quite upset (for him -- he seldom gets too upset) about it. My guess is that the RSM sheet was something selected to his preference (where it was cut in the sponge loaf) and selected by him out of a set of rubbers. The only problem with wanting to play with a Pro rubber is you have to have Pro-level strokes to really take advantage of it.
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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Even if the average player can't take advantage of an hypothetical "national" rubber, they will want it just to take an obsession off their mind if there is the slightest chance it exists.
Now let's say a brand decides to go all open and releases an official "NATIONAL TEAM" version of any given rubber: I have no doubt somebody would have a cousin with great connections to have access to the "OLYMPIC" version of the "NATIONAL TEAM" version, with slightly harder sponge and grippier topsheet. etc... etc... etc... |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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From the taobao link:
"It may be fraudulent in the following situations: 1. Baby price is abnormally low; 2. Seller requires QQ communication; 3. Seller requires direct remittance. Seek anti-fraud experience ."
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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in another interview samsonov boll and other bty played said they use way harder tenergies and heavier I dont think a sheet from the other big sheet is gonna be harder
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf. This is what the pros seek. But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Getting your sponge from the ends of loafs is quite a bit harder (and heavier) than in the middle of the loaf. This is what the pros seek. But it's still the same materials as the retail rubbers. [/QUOTEI think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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"Not allowed" is too strong of phrasing. If someone is sponsored to promote a particular product (this applies to many types of products), they are generally prohibited from promoting competing brands. Most such contracts do not have requirements about whether to admit that pros use "special versions" of retail products. In fact, in sports is often the case that professionals will admit to having their own version and the public understands that that's because those people are professionals. In the case of table tennis, a sponsored professional might be hesitant to say something too blatant that could upset their sponsor, when talking about their own products, but that doesn't stop them from talking about product differences in general terms. At any rate, for the interview that Timo gave he's not going to lie and explicitly claim that his rubber is the more or less retail rubber if that's not true. There wouldn't be any point to it; if he's got custom "pro" rubber, why bother to complain about the CNT's custom rubbers? At most, he should just say nothing. The only reason to complain is because he does just use retail rubber (albeit, cut from the loaf ends). By the way, I did think of a way to get your own pro version of Tenergy or Dignics. Contact Butterfly and ask to buy every sheet of rubber made from one sponge loaf. You can sell off or give away the sheets cut from the middle of the loaf and then keep only those sheets from the loaf ends. Those will be the pro sheets. Alternatively, you could just buy thousands of sheets of rubber, figuring that randomly, some of those sheets will be from loaf-ends. I don't know about the long pips. What brand was it?
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I'm not sure about long pips, but it's hard to see how they could make a "pro version" of a long pip rubber without labeling it as something else. I think the sponge material is less important because it usually quite thin (but a good long pips expert could correct me on this). The pips shape/size is fixed; that can't be changed without getting approval from ITTF for a new rubber. And the top sheet material is unlikely to be changed. Possibly the pro sheet was treated (which is illegal, but might be seen the same as boosting). Or possibly the pro tried several sheets to find one he liked and there is just that much variance in the sheets. Karlsson Clipper is a blade, and that's a whole different question. It's well known that some pros will use different blades with a fake handle to make the blade look like their sponsored blade. Or pros can get customer blades, although usually the manufacturers will admit that (and, in fact, even club players can order custom blades). Even within stock retail blades, I've watched while pros went through selecting a "good blade", and they are very good a telling the difference between what look to be identical blades. I've seen a pro pick one blade out of ten, stating that the other nine are garbage.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I think you can buy "national" tenergy at the same place they sell genuine unicorns.
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Snakefish
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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I think pros are not allowed to say they use special versions , I tried some long pips from national team korean chopper and its diffrent very diffrent from the comercial version I don't know about the long pips. What brand was it? nittaku screw, I tried the pro version and it was very disturbing despite it was kinda new and when I got the comercial version it was very dull same was with peter karlsson clipper is faster feels way more solid [/QUOTE]
Sherlock says the pro version of the long pips was fresher than the commercial version - in a package for who knows how long - which is more "aged". Elementary dear Watson |
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Andro Treiber Z - fl
FH: Tibhar MX-D max BH: Tibhar Quantum ProX-blue,max |
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JohnnyChop
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2010 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 1159 |
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Of course the pros play with different rubbers then what is availeble commercially. But I would think pros play with custom rubbers made to thier specification and not some general national versions. There is a difference. There is no such thing as the national version that fits every pro...
I think this makes getting thier rubbers useless and a gigantic waste of money. Plus us and the pro does not play under the same situation... The Chinese national team probably have an unlimited supply of rubbers boosted to the max that they can use a fresh one every game if they like. And very likely the rubbers are customised without longevity in mind... Case and point would be mxp, I would really use mxp if performance didn't deteriot so fast, but to Samsonov, that is not an concern as he probably have a limitless supply from tibhar.
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729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1
Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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We have the secret now, National Tenergy will improve your technique and footwork I'm going to wait for the International Tenergy, so I can pick up chicks
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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shape of pips under topsheet in nat H3 is diffrent,they re shorter and wider
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I'm skeptical of this. Or, more precisely, if they have different pips, then it's not H3 at all. When rubbers are submitted to ITTF the pips configuration is specified. If you change that configuration then you have to submit it as a different rubber. So all versions of H3 have to have the same pips structure, and if you change the pips, then it's technically a different rubber.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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This.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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I have a pic taken from a rusian site I will try to post but a player that have a real H3 from warming area in a wttc told me that the pics looks diffrent under the topsheet and the throw angle of nat H3 is very very low I dont find hard to believe that rubbers are structurally diffrent for pros given the fact that ittf has done many shady things in the past.
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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I have tried a legit h3 nat which a friend got from China during his visit. Not sure abt it having a different pip structure, but the topsheer is definitely different compared to the regular h3, it feels more supple(less plasticky), also, its a bit less spin sensitive too and overall, it has a different feel to it even when you just run your finger over it.
Apart from that , without boost h3 nat is basically just a slow control rubber, and yes ,its throw is quite a bit lower compared to reg h3.
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1951 |
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yep.and it has a diffrent smell
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jpenman
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2020 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Edited by jpenman - 07/26/2021 at 10:55am |
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jpenman
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2020 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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.
Edited by jpenman - 07/26/2021 at 10:55am |
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