Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - short pips experiment -what equipment
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

short pips experiment -what equipment

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: short pips experiment -what equipment
    Posted: 05/21/2022 at 12:19pm
THIS IS AN ATHLETIC GAME, ANYWAY. OVERALL STAMINA IS NEEDED FIRST..    

Uranus Poly + strong legs makes you a devilish bombard. Lazy ones should avoid using SP.

Be happy.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
comodoensis View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 05/23/2014
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 61
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote comodoensis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2021 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Everything was out of stock so I ended up getting a cheapo 729-563 on a Viscaria, will try it out tonight! LOL
 

In case EJing urge comes around, you should try uranus pro soft 1.8mm for short pips backhand. Don't pick 2.15mm unless you're planning to use it for forehand.

Uranus pro soft 1.8mm is somewhat unique. You definitely can generate lots of spin, I even managed to do banana flicks with almost identical angle and swing, as if using inverted rubber, due to its soft sponge. While you can generate lots of spin, in passive or active blocking, somehow it is not that sensitive to spin. So, it can generate its own spin, while not being sensitive to spin. Seems paradoxical, yet somehow very easy to use. Plus, it has lovely 'click' sound usually heard from eurojap/tensor rubbers such as flyatt soft, fastarc s-1, stiga soft rubbers labeled as 'sound' variant. Perhaps, it's almost as soft as donic 'big slam' rubbers' sponges Confused

Surprisingly, they are using different sponge between 1.8mm and 2.15mm. I bought the same 'soft', both 1.8mm (for spare) and 2.15mm (out of curiosity). And of course they behaved differently. 2.15mm, due to harder sponge despite labeled the same as 'soft', it has less control, and less deception; more suited to be used on forehand side perhaps. Of course no 'click' sound; feels like usual chinese porous sponge. I believe the 2.15mm is using the same sponge as their inverted rubber, Earth 2. Same sponge color, same porous sponge I assume. 


You can notice the difference in sponge color. The one uncut is 1.8mm. 

The bad thing is, the 1.8mm will reverse-dome so bad when you take it off the blade Ouch

 

Lesson learned. So I decide to boost the spare 1.8mm to flatten it out. That's why on the first pic it lays flat.

Still, it's a bang for the buck. Cheap short pips, with sponge way softer than every chinese short pips I've ever used, but somehow with unique perks while very easy to use. Perfect Thumbs Up
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2021 at 6:13am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


Yep... with inverted as long as I'm in position and can get a good brush on the ball, chances are that the ball is gonna land. With pips if I'm late to the ball or read the spin wrong, use the wrong blade angle it's so easy to make a mistake....

Yes, I felt that all too keenly last night.

Since the new technique is still not muscle memory when the pressure is on, the warm up is very important to get the action and timing down and I didn't do that last night.

So I ended up in a 7 set match with around 2 clean winners and 40+ unforced errors on my forehand. Pretty embarrassing and I was surprised it went to the decider.

With normal rubber it's more intuitive, and you can adjust more easily - if you are hitting long consistently you close your bat, or you try brush more as you say and sacrifice quality for safety.

With pips if your bat angle, technique and timing is correct, i'd say its much safer, but if they aren't correct, you can't simply adjust by playing a more passive block or whatever, and the ball will fly off the pips uncontrollably.

Just need to put in more hours, as until then, the warm up i feel is pivotal before official matches. 

Haha I always envied pips players for being able to make weird balls that more often than not get a decisive advantage....now I really appreciate the topspin in inverted strokes which help consistency so much.... I now think it actually takes more skill to succeed in pips, especially when the other player knows how to play against them...
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
Basquests View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/29/2016
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/12/2021 at 3:05am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


Yep... with inverted as long as I'm in position and can get a good brush on the ball, chances are that the ball is gonna land. With pips if I'm late to the ball or read the spin wrong, use the wrong blade angle it's so easy to make a mistake....

Yes, I felt that all too keenly last night.

Since the new technique is still not muscle memory when the pressure is on, the warm up is very important to get the action and timing down and I didn't do that last night.

So I ended up in a 7 set match with around 2 clean winners and 40+ unforced errors on my forehand. Pretty embarrassing and I was surprised it went to the decider.

With normal rubber it's more intuitive, and you can adjust more easily - if you are hitting long consistently you close your bat, or you try brush more as you say and sacrifice quality for safety.

With pips if your bat angle, technique and timing is correct, i'd say its much safer, but if they aren't correct, you can't simply adjust by playing a more passive block or whatever, and the ball will fly off the pips uncontrollably.

Just need to put in more hours, as until then, the warm up i feel is pivotal before official matches. 
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

@Basquests 

I actually switched back to double inverted setup and found that my FH has significantly higher quality in them (especially spin), it's just that I'm no longer taking the forehands so early due to the increased weight. I feel like it's weird, subconsciously I'm actually adjusting my contact timing based on the weight (or maybe because I'm closer to the table when playing with pips)

But tbh I'm not convinced that the pips improved my FH, if anything the lightness of the pips reduced the head heaviness, and reduced the setup weight such that it reduced the quality of my FH even though it was easier to get them in. For me it's more like a quality vs speed compromise, with the double inverted setup better for quality and the pips setup better for speed (faster initiation speed + shorter recovery time).

Playing with sp teaches you how to play with more accuracy

Yep... with inverted as long as I'm in position and can get a good brush on the ball, chances are that the ball is gonna land. With pips if I'm late to the ball or read the spin wrong, use the wrong blade angle it's so easy to make a mistake....
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1949
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

@Basquests 

I actually switched back to double inverted setup and found that my FH has significantly higher quality in them (especially spin), it's just that I'm no longer taking the forehands so early due to the increased weight. I feel like it's weird, subconsciously I'm actually adjusting my contact timing based on the weight (or maybe because I'm closer to the table when playing with pips)

But tbh I'm not convinced that the pips improved my FH, if anything the lightness of the pips reduced the head heaviness, and reduced the setup weight such that it reduced the quality of my FH even though it was easier to get them in. For me it's more like a quality vs speed compromise, with the double inverted setup better for quality and the pips setup better for speed (faster initiation speed + shorter recovery time).

Playing with sp teaches you how to play with more accuracy
Back to Top
BeaverMD View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/09/2007
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1897
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 7:32am
I would have gone with a more plug-and-play short pips like 802-40, Moristo SP, or Impartial XB .  563 is a completely different animal that is not for just trying stuff out.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 2:34am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Yeah it's not just topspin strokes but heavy sidetopspin serves too...  very very difficult to control with the pips. With inverted those were basically free points, just chiquita or flip and it's mostly game over.... I played someone who had experience against pips and he targeted this weakness over and over again that i almost wanna give up on this experiment lol.... I switched back to inverted and destroyed him easily...

Of course, you are 2 hours or so into using pips, yet have used normal rubber for I'm guessing > 1000 hours, if not more than that. Timing, bat angle, technique etc. all change / differ slightly. It's funny, it's like the small differences are more annoying than if it was clearly a whole different thing, because the temptation is to try and not change too much as you already know it so well / don't want to ruin your inverted technique.


For me, the question was, am I willing to put up with a loss in performance in the short term, for medium and long term gain, and what sort of gains should I expect. If they are not likely to be appreciable, why go through the short term pain?

Even with the 'bad' technique pre-robot, against players who are within 1 level of me with inverted, pre-injury, I was doing almost as well with a movement robbing injury simply a week or a month into using them, as i was with inverted, before my injury.

 So I knew that I was probably going to be a more effective, efficient and talented player with pips, and my time horizons for medium/long-term was a lot shorter than it might be for other players - inverted rubber was a handicap as it didn't suit me as much.

They are also safer for longevity, a 195+ gram bat will cause injuries eventually. With Fh pips, its 180.0, both injury wise and stamina wise. You can save a bit of precious energy in tournaments in a few different ways [shorter strokes, and a lot of energy if you decide you don't need to loop against a player].

Hmm interesting, I think my inverted setup currently weighs the same as your pips setup haha... I feel like that's very close to the ideal weight. For me my level dropped huge after using pips - it was probably something like a 4-5 point difference which is ridiculous. The same guy whom I couldn't get a single set using pips, he couldn't get a single set off me when I switched back to inverted.... My unique advantages with the BH inverted receive (strawberry, chiquita, pushflicks, heavy spin/no spin pushes, heavy spin/low spin loops are all so much more muted with the pips. 

A short lived experiment.

What was your original BH rubber & thickness? 

You must be quite physically strong if a 1.5mm pips rubber feels like a top-end inverted 2.0 or max! :D.

My wrists, arms and racquet head speed all thanked me, and the Kutchen scales laid the numbers bare.

I used to play with D09c max on the BH so yeah I am a hard hitter lol... but I've seen your BH smash videos, you're definitely a harder hitter than me on the BH... I actually changed to Tenergy 05 on my main bat to make it easier on my wrist, D09c was taking its toll on me on the BH. 
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
Basquests View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/29/2016
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 1:48am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Yeah it's not just topspin strokes but heavy sidetopspin serves too...  very very difficult to control with the pips. With inverted those were basically free points, just chiquita or flip and it's mostly game over.... I played someone who had experience against pips and he targeted this weakness over and over again that i almost wanna give up on this experiment lol.... I switched back to inverted and destroyed him easily...

Of course, you are 2 hours or so into using pips, yet have used normal rubber for I'm guessing > 1000 hours, if not more than that. Timing, bat angle, technique etc. all change / differ slightly. It's funny, it's like the small differences are more annoying than if it was clearly a whole different thing, because the temptation is to try and not change too much as you already know it so well / don't want to ruin your inverted technique.


For me, the question was, am I willing to put up with a loss in performance in the short term, for medium and long term gain, and what sort of gains should I expect. If they are not likely to be appreciable, why go through the short term pain?

Even with the 'bad' technique pre-robot, against players who are within 1 level of me with inverted, pre-injury, I was doing almost as well with a movement robbing injury simply a week or a month into using them, as i was with inverted, before my injury.

 So I knew that I was probably going to be a more effective, efficient and talented player with pips, and my time horizons for medium/long-term was a lot shorter than it might be for other players - inverted rubber was a handicap as it didn't suit me as much.

They are also safer for longevity, a 195+ gram bat will cause injuries eventually. With Fh pips, its 180.0, both injury wise and stamina wise. You can save a bit of precious energy in tournaments in a few different ways [shorter strokes, and a lot of energy if you decide you don't need to loop against a player].

Hmm interesting, I think my inverted setup currently weighs the same as your pips setup haha... I feel like that's very close to the ideal weight. For me my level dropped huge after using pips - it was probably something like a 4-5 point difference which is ridiculous. The same guy whom I couldn't get a single set using pips, he couldn't get a single set off me when I switched back to inverted.... My unique advantages with the BH inverted receive (strawberry, chiquita, pushflicks, heavy spin/no spin pushes, heavy spin/low spin loops are all so much more muted with the pips. 

A short lived experiment.

What was your original BH rubber & thickness? 

You must be quite physically strong if a 1.5mm pips rubber feels like a top-end inverted 2.0 or max! :D.

My wrists, arms and racquet head speed all thanked me, and the Kutchen scales laid the numbers bare.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/10/2021 at 12:55am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Yeah it's not just topspin strokes but heavy sidetopspin serves too...  very very difficult to control with the pips. With inverted those were basically free points, just chiquita or flip and it's mostly game over.... I played someone who had experience against pips and he targeted this weakness over and over again that i almost wanna give up on this experiment lol.... I switched back to inverted and destroyed him easily...

Of course, you are 2 hours or so into using pips, yet have used normal rubber for I'm guessing > 1000 hours, if not more than that. Timing, bat angle, technique etc. all change / differ slightly. It's funny, it's like the small differences are more annoying than if it was clearly a whole different thing, because the temptation is to try and not change too much as you already know it so well / don't want to ruin your inverted technique.


For me, the question was, am I willing to put up with a loss in performance in the short term, for medium and long term gain, and what sort of gains should I expect. If they are not likely to be appreciable, why go through the short term pain?

Even with the 'bad' technique pre-robot, against players who are within 1 level of me with inverted, pre-injury, I was doing almost as well with a movement robbing injury simply a week or a month into using them, as i was with inverted, before my injury.

 So I knew that I was probably going to be a more effective, efficient and talented player with pips, and my time horizons for medium/long-term was a lot shorter than it might be for other players - inverted rubber was a handicap as it didn't suit me as much.

They are also safer for longevity, a 195+ gram bat will cause injuries eventually. With Fh pips, its 180.0, both injury wise and stamina wise. You can save a bit of precious energy in tournaments in a few different ways [shorter strokes, and a lot of energy if you decide you don't need to loop against a player].

Hmm interesting, I think my inverted setup currently weighs the same as your pips setup haha... I feel like that's very close to the ideal weight. For me my level dropped huge after using pips - it was probably something like a 4-5 point difference which is ridiculous. The same guy whom I couldn't get a single set using pips, he couldn't get a single set off me when I switched back to inverted.... My unique advantages with the BH inverted receive (strawberry, chiquita, pushflicks, heavy spin/no spin pushes, heavy spin/low spin loops are all so much more muted with the pips. 
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
Basquests View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/29/2016
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Yeah it's not just topspin strokes but heavy sidetopspin serves too...  very very difficult to control with the pips. With inverted those were basically free points, just chiquita or flip and it's mostly game over.... I played someone who had experience against pips and he targeted this weakness over and over again that i almost wanna give up on this experiment lol.... I switched back to inverted and destroyed him easily...

Of course, you are 2 hours or so into using pips, yet have used normal rubber for I'm guessing > 1000 hours, if not more than that. Timing, bat angle, technique etc. all change / differ slightly. It's funny, it's like the small differences are more annoying than if it was clearly a whole different thing, because the temptation is to try and not change too much as you already know it so well / don't want to ruin your inverted technique.


For me, the question was, am I willing to put up with a loss in performance in the short term, for medium and long term gain, and what sort of gains should I expect. If they are not likely to be appreciable, why go through the short term pain?

Even with the 'bad' technique pre-robot, against players who are within 1 level of me with inverted, pre-injury, I was doing almost as well with a movement robbing injury simply a week or a month into using them, as i was with inverted, before my injury.

 So I knew that I was probably going to be a more effective, efficient and talented player with pips, and my time horizons for medium/long-term was a lot shorter than it might be for other players - inverted rubber was a handicap as it didn't suit me as much.

They are also safer for longevity, a 195+ gram bat will cause injuries eventually. With Fh pips, its 180.0, both injury wise and stamina wise. You can save a bit of precious energy in tournaments in a few different ways [shorter strokes, and a lot of energy if you decide you don't need to loop against a player].


Edited by Basquests - 03/09/2021 at 11:17pm
Back to Top
Basquests View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/29/2016
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Hmm I think I'll try this method too haha... I always thought blocking topspin with pips was the easiest thing there is - turns out that it's not! Now I wonder how did He Zhi Wen just block everything back so easily like a boss haha. It's way easier to control the return with inverted....

This is a technical issue. I had the same issue - it is very hard to deal with heavy topspin, but it is trivial if the technique is good, but it takes a little bit of time to address this. i.e. 7~ weeks of normal practice simply took me from being awful, to having functionally bad technique.

The robot giving heavy topspin balls to the same location allowed me to iterate through different options and within a few hours of that practice, i understood and was able to get through to good technique. Now it is for sure much easier to hit through any [weak topspin to elite] topspin ball than with inverted. That's the nature of pips, you can dampen the spin effect you feel, but you have to engage the pips in a certain way in order to do it reproduceably.

With inverted rubber, it is smooth so it's more intuitive and you're already very used to it [so it's far more intuitive / easy to see you're always under/overhitting]. With pips, if you let the ball hit your pips, it will fly unexpectedly, you need to engage it, and engage it in a specific way.


Edited by Basquests - 03/09/2021 at 11:16pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 9:12pm
@Basquests 

I actually switched back to double inverted setup and found that my FH has significantly higher quality in them (especially spin), it's just that I'm no longer taking the forehands so early due to the increased weight. I feel like it's weird, subconsciously I'm actually adjusting my contact timing based on the weight (or maybe because I'm closer to the table when playing with pips)

But tbh I'm not convinced that the pips improved my FH, if anything the lightness of the pips reduced the head heaviness, and reduced the setup weight such that it reduced the quality of my FH even though it was easier to get them in. For me it's more like a quality vs speed compromise, with the double inverted setup better for quality and the pips setup better for speed (faster initiation speed + shorter recovery time).


Edited by blahness - 03/09/2021 at 9:13pm
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

Possibly you are waiting too long on the serves? 

If you watch the better SP players, contact is always earlier than with inverted. By being early, you can flatten the stroke some and drive the ball into the other side of the table instead of spinning it in - like inverted. Plus by being early you can use more of the incoming spin. 

You can always twiddle for serve receive when you get that server jamming the pips!

There was a younger Chinese girl training in Maryland 2017/18 with Tiffany Ke who used SP on the FH and I swear she took the ball on the way up! IDK her name but she came in 2nd in the Women's Open at the Arnold Classic 2018. I do know she was terrorizing the east coast while she was here, so you might find some video of her! 
The young lady that won the Women's Open in 2018 was a former Chinese Super League player! She was in NY as a training partner for Wang Chen.

Haha if I had to twiddle I might as well play with inverted LOL
at least now I understand more of the pips play and where it's weaker at. 
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
RDinTN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2019
Location: 37075
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDinTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 7:06pm
Yimiao Wang - Black pips forehand - Left handed.. plays a TON of BH. 
ZLC/ULC Custom, Nitt.H3 Pro /MX-S
Back to Top
RDinTN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2019
Location: 37075
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDinTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 4:42pm
Possibly you are waiting too long on the serves? 

If you watch the better SP players, contact is always earlier than with inverted. By being early, you can flatten the stroke some and drive the ball into the other side of the table instead of spinning it in - like inverted. Plus by being early you can use more of the incoming spin. 

You can always twiddle for serve receive when you get that server jamming the pips!

There was a younger Chinese girl training in Maryland 2017/18 with Tiffany Ke who used SP on the FH and I swear she took the ball on the way up! IDK her name but she came in 2nd in the Women's Open at the Arnold Classic 2018. I do know she was terrorizing the east coast while she was here, so you might find some video of her! 
The young lady that won the Women's Open in 2018 was a former Chinese Super League player! She was in NY as a training partner for Wang Chen.
ZLC/ULC Custom, Nitt.H3 Pro /MX-S
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 8:42am
I now understand why players like Sun Yingsha almost exclusively serve topspin long to Ito's BH.... The pips are simply better against underspin than topspin. 

Edited by blahness - 03/09/2021 at 10:27am
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 8:29am
Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Yeah it's not just topspin strokes but heavy sidetopspin serves too...  very very difficult to control with the pips. With inverted those were basically free points, just chiquita or flip and it's mostly game over.... I played someone who had experience against pips and he targeted this weakness over and over again that i almost wanna give up on this experiment lol.... I switched back to inverted and destroyed him easily...


Edited by blahness - 03/09/2021 at 8:53am
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2021 at 2:09am
Originally posted by RDinTN RDinTN wrote:

"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.

Hmm I think I'll try this method too haha... I always thought blocking topspin with pips was the easiest thing there is - turns out that it's not! Now I wonder how did He Zhi Wen just block everything back so easily like a boss haha. It's way easier to control the return with inverted....
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
IanMcg View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/27/2011
Location: Somehere
Status: Offline
Points: 1151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Most people I know consider 563 a medium pip. Certainly longer than most SP.

It's weird, I feel like I could still generate quite a fair bit of spin, the reports about it being flathit only are greatly exaggerated imo...

Fukuhara played with 563
Maybe at one point but for the most part she played Armstrong Attack 8m with the purple sponge. Miao Miao played 563
Back to Top
ejprinz View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/01/2020
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 92
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 9:21pm
Yes, I have 4 (Uranus Pro) of them on various blades, I got them from PrinceTT. I started with the medium sponge on a Yinhe Pro-5W (walnut top like Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive) and won the San Antonio U1300 with it SmileSmile. The YouTube video about the Uranus Pro by Maxim Cherepnin helped a lot (from TT Maximum).

I then switched to the soft sponge with a slower blade (Yinhe E3 or W6). This allows me to roll pretty well with the backhand and still have a good topspin on the forehand.

The Uranus Pro medium sponge has a similar hardness compared to the Nittaku Moristo SP and the Rakza PO, the soft sponge is softer. I actually had started short pips with the Rakza PO but I found it to be too fast so I overshot a lot with pushing.

The Uranus Pro is better controlled IMHO.

I also tried the Uranus Pro on some faster blades (e.g. Yinhe T-7 Hinoki/ALC external) and it is really fun to play but these blades are too fast for me for tournaments right now (mainly the forehand inverted - Yinhe Moon, backhand SP would be OK).



Edited by ejprinz - 03/08/2021 at 9:22pm
Yinhe 980XX, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Nittaku Wallest 1.0mm sponge.
Back to Top
Shiro View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/15/2017
Location: San Diego, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 90
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 6:59pm
If I were to recommend any pips, the TSP Spectol Red is a very good rubber. I have been using it ever since I transitioned from inverted and enjoyed it ever since. However, the rubber is being discontinued so that's something that's unfortunate since Victas is taking over TSP and Victas is only make 3 Spectol Rubbers now. 
Back to Top
RDinTN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2019
Location: 37075
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDinTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 6:51pm
"real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin" That was always tricky.. but you just need to get on top of the ball and block down into the ball. You will struggle if yout try to block that type ball late, as the incoming spin will be the controlling factor in arc height and length.
ZLC/ULC Custom, Nitt.H3 Pro /MX-S
Back to Top
ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 6:36pm
7-ply blade ayous/limba construction 6.2-6.5 mm for a good compromise between FH looping and BH blocking/driving/hitting, 802-40 or Waran II for an easy entry.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

Feedback
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Most people I know consider 563 a medium pip. Certainly longer than most SP.

It's weird, I feel like I could still generate quite a fair bit of spin, the reports about it being flathit only are greatly exaggerated imo...

Fukuhara played with 563

Interesting! I never really watched many Fukuhara matches before, will give it a go. I'm more of an Ito fan lol. 
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1949
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Most people I know consider 563 a medium pip. Certainly longer than most SP.

It's weird, I feel like I could still generate quite a fair bit of spin, the reports about it being flathit only are greatly exaggerated imo...

Fukuhara played with 563
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Most people I know consider 563 a medium pip. Certainly longer than most SP.

It's weird, I feel like I could still generate quite a fair bit of spin, the reports about it being flathit only are greatly exaggerated imo...
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Ok had a long hit with the short pips tonight. I'm actually really surprisingly happy with it. 

The thing I'm not really used to is the thinness of the pips (I went for 1.5mm sponge), it felt like my index finger was always misplaced and felt weird. The grip will take some getting used to. 

I got the hang of just hitting the ball solidly, and it felt good to be able to just hit through almost anything. The biggest improvement is attacking the 3rd ball from my serves, it felt so natural and easy compared to inverted where I often had to be very careful with reading my opponent's receive and adjusting accordingly. It felt so good to attack heavy underspin pushes on the rise with good percentages lol, it is definitely something that has to be experienced LOL

Pushes felt really weird because if I pushed with the same open bat angle it'll just pop up like crazy. I did a couple of pushes that had some weird af spin but didn't manage to figure out how to reproduce them...
Sidespin pushes (strawberry plus normal chopblock technique) were very effective too, but didn't have the weird af spin that inverted produces. The pushflick is useless because of the low dwell time, impossible to disguise anything imo.

I could do the chiquita with even more ease now because I simply didn't really need to adjust all that much to incoming spin, it felt so good just blasting those away lol. It is probably one of my biggest point winners. 

The other thing that was really weird was the weight of the blade, I felt that my FH loop lost quite a bit of spin (could be because of the Viscaria vs Long 5, or the reduction in weight), but the real advantage was in the initiation speed, I was simply able to get the swings in faster which actually resulted in some ridiculous shotmaking that even I was surprised I was capable of. Overall I feel it's actually a better FH now thanks to the increased speed.

The receive of long fast serves with the pips was a problem, it was quite hard to get good quality out of them (I've been pretty much hitting through them). I think I'll have to investigate some chopblocking or sideswipes to complement this too. 

I felt like serves with the 09c didn't lose any quality so I retained my biggest weapon. It was actually physically easier to serve with the reduced weight (less taxing on the muscles)

I was very interested to know if you'd get the same boost to your inverted rubber, from the lower weight / increased head heaviness on the inverted side - glad you got it. Since you have a lower swingweight, and higher swing speed, I'd wager you're perhaps converting this acceleration into more speed than spin compared to before [either due to a slight technical change, or due to the blade's natural arc being lower]; i can't really speak to it since I retained the same blade when changing over.

Yes, the pushes / receives with pips become significantly better placed, but do become less spinny/threatening in terms of spin, hopefully this can be rediscovered once we learn more about the nuances about receiving with pips, although a decent well placed receive is still pretty good, it's just nice completely destroying someone off receives. I noticed if I chopped in a certain way, the ball would get heavy backspin [or seem to], but the bat angle is very extreme [i.e. risky], and probably an advanced skill...better to learn the meat and potatoes of what SP's are about, rather than focus on an infrequent issue / they aren't easily designed to do.

With pushing I could still get quite a lot of backspin (my partner consistently underestimated the amount of spin), but there was a technique which actually allowed me to push with topspin lol that I accidentally discovered, but I haven't really reproduced it. I think you have to kinda hit it with minimal dwell to achieve the spin reversal. But really there's no point pushing when it's so easy to just attack everything, I didn't push much during practice matches because the flips and chiquita was already so deadly. 

The real problem I had was defending against heavy topspin, it's just a pain compared to inverted because with inverted you can just easily guide block it to the table, with pips it is way too easy to just pop it off the table. I think rubbing it upwards actually killed the incoming spin which created some really sinking blocks. I'll have to watch more Ito matches to see how she does it so easily.... In matches the best defense is to attack first so the other person never gets to do heavy topspins
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
vanjr View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/19/2004
Location: Corpus Christi
Status: Offline
Points: 1368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 1:15pm
Most people I know consider 563 a medium pip. Certainly longer than most SP.
Back to Top
Basquests View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/29/2016
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2021 at 10:14am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Ok had a long hit with the short pips tonight. I'm actually really surprisingly happy with it. 

The thing I'm not really used to is the thinness of the pips (I went for 1.5mm sponge), it felt like my index finger was always misplaced and felt weird. The grip will take some getting used to. 

I got the hang of just hitting the ball solidly, and it felt good to be able to just hit through almost anything. The biggest improvement is attacking the 3rd ball from my serves, it felt so natural and easy compared to inverted where I often had to be very careful with reading my opponent's receive and adjusting accordingly. It felt so good to attack heavy underspin pushes on the rise with good percentages lol, it is definitely something that has to be experienced LOL

Pushes felt really weird because if I pushed with the same open bat angle it'll just pop up like crazy. I did a couple of pushes that had some weird af spin but didn't manage to figure out how to reproduce them...
Sidespin pushes (strawberry plus normal chopblock technique) were very effective too, but didn't have the weird af spin that inverted produces. The pushflick is useless because of the low dwell time, impossible to disguise anything imo.

I could do the chiquita with even more ease now because I simply didn't really need to adjust all that much to incoming spin, it felt so good just blasting those away lol. It is probably one of my biggest point winners. 

The other thing that was really weird was the weight of the blade, I felt that my FH loop lost quite a bit of spin (could be because of the Viscaria vs Long 5, or the reduction in weight), but the real advantage was in the initiation speed, I was simply able to get the swings in faster which actually resulted in some ridiculous shotmaking that even I was surprised I was capable of. Overall I feel it's actually a better FH now thanks to the increased speed.

The receive of long fast serves with the pips was a problem, it was quite hard to get good quality out of them (I've been pretty much hitting through them). I think I'll have to investigate some chopblocking or sideswipes to complement this too. 

I felt like serves with the 09c didn't lose any quality so I retained my biggest weapon. It was actually physically easier to serve with the reduced weight (less taxing on the muscles)

I was very interested to know if you'd get the same boost to your inverted rubber, from the lower weight / increased head heaviness on the inverted side - glad you got it. Since you have a lower swingweight, and higher swing speed, I'd wager you're perhaps converting this acceleration into more speed than spin compared to before [either due to a slight technical change, or due to the blade's natural arc being lower]; i can't really speak to it since I retained the same blade when changing over.

Yes, the pushes / receives with pips become significantly better placed, but do become less spinny/threatening in terms of spin, hopefully this can be rediscovered once we learn more about the nuances about receiving with pips, although a decent well placed receive is still pretty good, it's just nice completely destroying someone off receives. I noticed if I chopped in a certain way, the ball would get heavy backspin [or seem to], but the bat angle is very extreme [i.e. risky], and probably an advanced skill...better to learn the meat and potatoes of what SP's are about, rather than focus on an infrequent issue / they aren't easily designed to do.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.313 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.