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Rubber chart - karahashitakkyu
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shinshiro View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/07/2022 at 5:45pm
Hi guys

While I was searching for informations about a rubber, I discovered this rubber chart below made by karahashitakkyu. The x axis represents spin, and y axis is speed.
I guess that their staff test the rubbers and put them on the chart, comparing with previous rubbers tested.
I found it very interesting.
What do you guys think about the chart? Do you agree overall with it? Or are there some major discrepances in your experience?
Of course this is just their opinion, can't say is right or wrong, but I'm curious to know what do you think.

Their twitter account:
https://twitter.com/karahashitakkyu

Link to this post of rubber chart (all in japanese):
https://twitter.com/karahashitakkyu/...30366611787778

I tried to translate a few rubbers names (sorry if it has some mistakes, I can't read japanese):

If it is too small to read, you can try enter the link below and zoom in the image

https://i.imgur.com/21SO0Qo.jpg
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shinshiro View Drop Down
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Points: 243 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2022 at 6:12pm
A few notes about this chart:
- each color represents a brand (black = butterfly, dark pink = tibhar, gray = stiga, purple = mizuno, and so on)
- the pins that have a red circle are chinese-like rubbers/ hybrid rubbers (look at Dignics 09C / DNA Dragon Grip)
- the fastest rubber is bryce high speed (forgot to translate that on the chart....)
- the spinniest rubber is nittaku hurricane pro 2 (also forgot to translat that...). But it seems this rubber is not comercially available anymore (at least is what TT11 site says), so the spinniest rubber available now is DNA Dragon Grip (note: they didn't put any DHS rubbers on the chart, probably because they didn't test them I guess)
- of the non tacky rubbers on this chart, there are only about five they think have similar spin capabilities to T05 (outside Butterfly). They are: Donic Bluestorm Pro, Cornilleau Target Pro XD 47.5 and 52.7, Mizuno Q4 and Q Quality
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pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
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Points: 3659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2022 at 8:00pm
Thanks for the chart.  I'm currently trying out MX-D as a replacement for my T-05 I've been using.  In terms of spin, I find them to be so close that the difference is smaller than what the chart would suggest imho.  I think the y-axis speed is a pretty good approximation for my two rubbers.  Durability remains to be seen, but so far so good after 4 weeks.  TT11's 4=3 deal is a game changer for me.
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WHO IS THE REAL KING OF THE ROCKHILL?

I'd like to know the actual "market popularity index" for major table tennis brands.   This is something like we can now see a realistic market share between the many internet browsers and operational systems.
I very strongly suspect [id699521374|@Tamasu] BUTTERFLY superiority on global sports-product marketplace. Chinese DG is the real king now. Their Guangzhou headoffice claims so.

https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share

GD comes on market with the most rich variety of HiTeck rubbers,superior to any other manufacturers.    
https://sun9-14.userapi.com/SOrPPFINn0_n2s6oGz8airDWondpdcEx_aNGGQ/J88Tk0aIHwM.jpg
https://sun9-14.userapi.com/SOrPPFINn0_n2s6oGz8airDWoNdpdcEx_aNGGQ/J88Tk0aIHwM.jpg

Be happy

Edited by igorponger - 02/08/2022 at 12:35pm
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tom View Drop Down
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If I read the translated names right, MXD is both faster and spinier than MXP?
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TT newbie View Drop Down
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Points: 1391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2022 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:


(note: they didn't put any DHS rubbers on the chart, probably because they didn't test them I guess)
DHS rubbers are not sold in Japan stores. Every Hurricane rubber carries the name of Nittaku, the DHS partner in Japan.
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Matt Pimple View Drop Down
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Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:


(note: they didn't put any DHS rubbers on the chart, probably because they didn't test them I guess)
DHS rubbers are not sold in Japan stores. Every Hurricane rubber carries the name of Nittaku, the DHS partner in Japan.
I’m not sure this is correct but TT-Japan actually sells DHS rubbers and that is a Japanese vendor.
Edit: and the Nittaku versions of the DHS rubbers are also sold outside of Japan for example by TT11


Edited by Matt Pimple - 02/08/2022 at 4:22pm
OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5

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TT newbie View Drop Down
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Points: 1391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2022 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by shinshiro shinshiro wrote:


(note: they didn't put any DHS rubbers on the chart, probably because they didn't test them I guess)
DHS rubbers are not sold in Japan stores. Every Hurricane rubber carries the name of Nittaku, the DHS partner in Japan.
I’m not sure this is correct but TT-Japan actually sells DHS rubbers and that is a Japanese vendor.
Edit: and the Nittaku versions of the DHS rubbers are also sold outside of Japan for example by TT11
TT-Japan is not a physical store like Kokusai Takkyu or Karahashi TT.
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Points: 410 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2022 at 6:14pm
In my hands, R48 is faster than T80 and Q5, while on the chart R48 is the slowest out of three.
Speed: R48>T80>Q5>G-1
Spin: T80~=G-1=Q5>R48
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zeio View Drop Down
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Points: 10833 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2022 at 11:18pm
TT-Japan does have a physical store.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
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Points: 3659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2022 at 5:40am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If I read the translated names right, MXD is both faster and spinier than MXP?
Yes, but I'm assuming that the MX-P in the chart is the 47.5 degree sponge.  There's also a 50 degree version of MX-P which I'm guessing would be a little faster than MX-D.  Also, I'm assuming these are max speeds when the sponge is fully engaged when you hit your hardest.  For touch shots, the MX-D with it's softer top sheet is going to be slower.  
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tom View Drop Down
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Points: 3016 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2022 at 11:17am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

If I read the translated names right, MXD is both faster and spinier than MXP?
Yes, but I'm assuming that the MX-P in the chart is the 47.5 degree sponge.  There's also a 50 degree version of MX-P which I'm guessing would be a little faster than MX-D.  Also, I'm assuming these are max speeds when the sponge is fully engaged when you hit your hardest.  For touch shots, the MX-D with it's softer top sheet is going to be slower.  
  my friend tells me on a sheet of MXD I ordered for him - he said the the MXP is faster - but probably only for less than max force as you suggested
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TT newbie View Drop Down
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Points: 1391 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2022 at 11:30am
I just can´t believe the Xiom O7 China Ying has the same speed of T05 Hard and the same spin of Hurricane Turbo Blue. This would be a dream rubber.
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blahness View Drop Down
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Points: 5443 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2022 at 4:58pm
Stiga Dragon Grip is more spinny than D09c? Gotta dig out the reviews now 😜
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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tom View Drop Down
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Points: 3016 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2022 at 6:00pm
nothing to do with this thread or TT: shocker, ROC might be striped of their Team Figure Skating Gold if a doping infraction is ruled against them
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Points: 1951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2022 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

nothing to do with this thread or TT: shocker, ROC might be striped of their Team Figure Skating Gold if a doping infraction is ruled against them


Where s Igor aka itolover to explain this?
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Harald View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2022 at 2:28am
is the Yasaka Rising Dragon on that list?
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zeio View Drop Down
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Points: 10833 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2022 at 2:37am
Rising Dragon - to the bottom right of Q Quality
Shining Dragon - to the bottom right of Sieger PK50
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2022 at 3:34am
thx
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tom View Drop Down
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Points: 3016 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2022 at 9:54am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

nothing to do with this thread or TT: shocker, ROC might be striped of their Team Figure Skating Gold if a doping infraction is ruled against them


Where s Igor aka itolover to explain this?
hehe, could count on you to chime in.  Igor thinks boosting is real cheating but doping is not.  Funny dopers / countries are sanctioned by the IOC but boosting did not result in any bans
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Harald View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2022 at 10:21pm
so to be fair is there a Thread which compared fresh gluing to boosting?in my eyes its the same in blue as we say.
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Points: 442 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2022 at 10:15am
I play w/Nittaku PK50 now - never thought it is the averagest rubber in the world. Honestly - i dont think so. I played with different tensors,T05/05 hard, haifu bwII, dhs H3 neo bs prov on my FH  - and I'm not in any moment feeling such a difference in specs like one could expect while looking at this chart. It (PK50) does have enough speed and spin. May be the scale bears difference for 5-10 % from PK50 to O7 Ying  - users should be aware of it in such a case.          
So take it with a grain of salt, guys.    
ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50
Tibhar Evolution EL-S
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Points: 1951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2022 at 11:06am
Originally posted by vic#74 vic#74 wrote:

I play w/Nittaku PK50 now - never thought it is the averagest rubber in the world. Honestly - i dont think so. I played with different tensors,T05/05 hard, haifu bwII, dhs H3 neo bs prov on my FH  - and I'm not in any moment feeling such a difference in specs like one could expect while looking at this chart. It (PK50) does have enough speed and spin. May be the scale bears difference for 5-10 % from PK50 to O7 Ying  - users should be aware of it in such a case.          
So take it with a grain of salt, guys.    


Does it last?
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vic#74 View Drop Down
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Points: 442 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic#74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2022 at 9:25am
First sheet, irregular practise  - can't say for sure, sorry. Seems to be durable. 
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Some of them are actually pretty close to experimental results at low velocities, such as Tenergy 05, Fastarc G-1, and Rakza X(to the bottom left of Q Quality), whereas some others are way off, say Ventus Extra(to the top right of Evolution MX-P) and Evolution MX-D.

The gap between flagship, mid-range and low-end rubbers is definitely closer than as indicated on the chart. FH loopdriving at medium effort, my shots actually have more kick with the Ventus Spin(now Ventus Limber, first pink below GF T45) than with the Hurricane 3 Neo, both unboosted on the TSP Swat, which is to be expected but often overlooked.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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