Ma Long serve training

I'd also like to point out his toss. It leaves his hand well above his head, and you can tell from the way the hand tilts that he puts spin on it. His quick upward motion that sweeps back over his head keeps it in his hand until it tips and puts the spin on it. So he puts spin on it and contacts it after it drops below where it left his hand.

actually, the discussion is mainly about one serve in particular, the slo-mo at 1:25.

as far as i can see, the serve is technically illegal.  i say "technically" because the moment of contact is perfectly visible at this camera angle, which is basically the same view that a righthander standing at his backhand would have.

that said, there are 2 things wrong here:  firstly, the ball passes behind his head for brief moment before the moment of contact and secondly, his free hand appears to be between the ball and the net at the moment of contact. 

now, the hand being where it is would obscure the ball from the view of a lefthander standing at his backhand side.

so, if i were an ump, i would not say anything if he were playing a righthander.  even though the ball passing behind the head is illegal, i wouldn't care, as long as the moment of contact is visible, which is really, in my mind, the most important thing.

but if his opponent was a lefthander (and not a teammate, who, one could safely assume, is used to his serves) then i would issue a warning for him to drop the hand faster so that the ball wouldn't pass behind it as it appears to do, at least to me, in this vid.

is it fair to say that it is easier for #1 in the world to cross borderline more often without being called?
that's what an intelligent player will do to stay at the top.
I do not believe being totally 100% fair will help you to stay at or even reach the top.
I am ashamed at what I just wrote as it could be considered as an excuse to have an ongoing cheating spirit. I will not edit it because it's a reality: at the top level they will try to stay on borderline because that's where things happen.
It reminds me that theory (I do not know if it's right or wrong but I sure like it) that says we should take enough risks to evolve to ensure survival for our genes but not too many in order not to die from  too much...evolution baldness.
JUST STAY ON THE EDGE BABY!!!

JKC wrote: In this case ML is clearly trying to gain an advantage by serving in this way...  I don't think he has a lot to worry about.

yeah man! at any level you got it right.

He is just playing on his edge and of course he is able to back off a bit when called.

What I am sure about is since he is on that edge even if he wants to be legal all the time, he regularly won't just because of his will to stay borderline: the little lag between the player's will to be legal and his body not to follow exactly all the time will create a problem.
I bet it is really hard to judge those people's way in a live situation (DUH!)

JKC wrote: It doesn't matter whether the ball is visible to a right hander or to the camera, the fact is that his hand not removed as soon as the ball is projected. In fact it is still in this space at the time of contact. Just pause the vid at the correct time and it is obvious.    2.06.05  As soon as the ball has been projected, the server�s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.   I also agree that the rule can't be (or just isn't) enforced so might as well be dropped.

fiveplyian wrote: JKC wrote: It doesn't matter whether the ball is visible to a right hander or to the camera, the fact is that his hand not removed as soon as the ball is projected. In fact it is still in this space at the time of contact. Just pause the vid at the correct time and it is obvious.    2.06.05  As soon as the ball has been projected, the server�s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net.   I also agree that the rule can't be (or just isn't) enforced so might as well be dropped.   Has anyone seen any guidance as to what the above actually means. What is 'the space' between the ball and the net ? I couldn't find any umpires guidance on it.   If the ball is above my head and I draw a line from ball to top of net then is 'the space' everything above this line ? This seems to be how umpires interpret it as several pros just track their arm down below the 'ball to net line' so their arm is never in this definition of space.   If 'the space' is defined as everything between vertical plane of ball and vertical plane of net then its not remotely enforced.   P.S. This was the second, revised wording of this particular new rule wasn't it ? or do I remember incorrectly ?

Well ya, this:

johnny89atc wrote: I remember that Adam Sharara said in a thread about  serving that Ma Long pushes the rules of legal serving to their limits more than any other player...

Yes, the ITTF president singled him out, no wonder he frequently gets faulted even when he serves legally. I guess the refs got the memo...

APW46 wrote: The ITTF do not care about Us, they bring in rules that can only possibly be enforced in top Pro competition, I have had many emails with Adham, he is a good guy, but the ITTF  make a clear distinction between what it deems as as international pro players and Us lot, we don't register, we are nothing, there is no distinction in the eyes of the ITTF between YOU, and a casual player who books a table at a leisure centre.

the ittf writes the rules for their events.  it's up to individual countries to decide if they themselves want to adopt those rules for their events as well.

the ittf does not govern world tt.  there's this false belief that it does.  it only governs the events it sanctions.

you said you sent many emails to adham.  why on earth would you do that (unless you're close friends)??

if you are not playing in ittf events, then whatever rules the ittf makes do NOT apply to YOU.  and even if the governing tt body in your country adopts those rules, but you still don't play in those events, then those rules still don't apply to you.  prez sharara has actually said this on a few occasions.  i wish he would say it more often...

for example, on one of my blades, i use rubber cement, cuz the blade surface is too slick and the water-based glue doesn't make the sponge stick to the wood.  well, that's illegal at ittf events.  but i'm not playing in ittf events so i don't care one whit that it's in violation of their rules. cuz i'm not playing in their events...